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Tuesday, September 23, 2008
The Supreme Council of the House of Jacob in a Radiohead t-shirt
[Tony]After 180 on Sunday morning, I decided to come back to the pad to relax. I initially had a strong desire to take a righteous nap before Sanctuary, however, I also felt God asking me to use my time to go wandering. So, I gave God my feet and started walking. I actually had thought a few days earlier that it might be in my own interest, and the interest of those of us here in the house, to get involved in a church community here in our neighborhood. So, I began my walk hoping to come across a church close by for us to try down the road. I walked down the street, and immediately walked by a church called “the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob.” There were a whole bunch of people outside who were dressed up in suits and dresses and I almost walked straight in. However, since I hadn’t even walked far enough to not see my own bedroom, I decided to keep walking. I walked a few blocks, through some houses, parks, and around Dayton’s Bluff Elementary School. Oh, how the hood comes alive on Sunday afternoons. People were out walking, like me, saying hello as they walked by. There were a whole bunch of people out exercising in the football field and as a rounding the corner and heading back to my house I noticed that some of the people who were outside of the church were sitting across the street listening to the football game. I decided to start a conversation and asked them if they went to the church I mentioned earlier. They said they were and started talking all about it. They told me it was a non-denominational Christian church, asked me where I was from, where I went to church, if I was trying to find a new church home, and then told me that they had a service starting at three o’clock. Then they insisted that I come in with them. Keep in mind that I was wearing blue jeans, a Radiohead t-shirt, and a baby blue bandana while they were wearing suits and ties. I asked if I would be okay and they told me that I could wear whatever I wanted. So, I went inside and sat by my new friend who told me to call him “Bonzo.” To say the least, I got my fair share of attention when I walked in with Bonzo, considering the blue jeans and Radiohead t-shirt and the fact that I was the only white person in the entire congregation. The worship that was happening was so alive and electric. People were dancing in the aisles and singing as loud as they could for their God. There were only a select few song books floating around, but as soon as people noticed their new visitor, the song books started migrating my way. I sang with them and I clapped and swayed with the rhythm and then I listened to the speakers. At the end there was a time for members of the church to “testify” before the congregation. The last person to testify finished his prayer with this praise “Dear God we thank you for bringing us a new visitor. He didn’t know any of our songs but he was trying so hard to sing with us and praise you, so we thank you for bringing him to us today.” Then he looked at me and said “Brother, would you like to testify today?” To say the least, I was not ready for that one. I hesitated for a second and then told him that maybe I would in a few weeks but first I wanted to get to know them. Bonzo leaned over and told me that that was a good answer. After the service a whole bunch of people came over and introduced themselves and told me to come back with my roommates, which I fully intend on doing ….
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1 – 200 of 224 Newer› Newest»Don't go back.
Ditto...
http://www.trancenet.net/house_of_jacob/overview/beliefs.shtml
Don't trust that website. They are not a cult. I know a lot of people from home that go there and they are a great group of people. They are very nice and you should definitely go back. I asked a friend why that website said they were a cult and all of that awful stuff, and they told me it was a former member with mental problems who made up stories for attention. The Supreme Council of the House of Jacob is a terrific body, based on the teachings in the King James Version of the Holy Bible. Go and listen, and you will see like I, as a visitor did see, that the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob is not like every other religion, but God says that His people are a peculiar people. You will also see that the teachings make very much sense and there is no greater group of people on earth.
As someone who had been born into that church, who was a member for 20 years, and whose father was a pastor, I can tell you that leaving it was the most healthy thing I have ever done for myself. As far as the trancenet website is concerned, I cannot attest to the veracity of the personal stories of abuse that are in that website because I don't know the people who told those stories. However, I can tell you that the accounts of the church's practices, including punishing people by sitting them on the back seat, shunning them, numerous financial obligations, creating their own holidays, the old school that they used to run on the farm in Coshocton, Ohio, and other such accounts, are in fact true. I find it troubling that a person would disparage someone who would have the courage to come forward with their story about their experience with this church. I doubt that it was easy for that person to do it. As for myself, reading parts of it was like someone reading aspects of the most painful part of my childhood, and it was jarring.
Now I don't know which local mission you went to, but to tell you the truth, it really doesn't matter because they are pretty much the same. You may have noticed that during the testimonies, members would first give honor to the "Forefathers of Israel," that is to the church's historical and current leadership. I can tell you that this is a church that treats its leader as if he were God himself. Because of this, I could never understand where Jesus fit into this church. And, it was not until I left this church that I learned about Jesus.
Is this church a cult? I believe that it is. That is not to say that the people are not nice people. I believe that many of them are very kind-hearted. But I do believe that they are deceived by its leadership. I say that they are a cult because they are taught to worship their leaders, the leadership is very strict in extracting mandatory payments from its members that go far beyond the tithes that the Bible requires, they disparage other Christian churches who are not part of the SCHOJ family, they are not permitted to partake in recreational activities where non-members are present (such as going to the movies, school dances, public swimming pools, public rollerskating rinks, sporting events), and they try to maintain their membership through fear tactics and broken family ties (they do have a song entitled "After You Fall You Will Be Grievous" - it's in the song book that you wrote about). One of the most troubling aspects of the church to me is that it does not do anything for its surrounding community. There is no work that the church does for people who are not members -- no soup kitchens, no homeless shelters, no outreach programs of any sort. It is very insular and, yes, secretive.
Now as for this person who has stated that he/she was a "visitor", I find it curious that this person speaks with the same tenor as actual members of the church. I find it interesting that this person is willing to pass on hearsay that the writer of the trancenet accounts had "mental problems" in an effort to discredit that person. I also find it curious that this "visitor" speaks the language of the church. Really? "There is no greater group of people on earth"? If this person really believed that, he/she would not just be a "visitor", but rather a member. I mean seriously, that line is a dead giveaway. It sounds as if he/she was fed the church's talking points. But how could he/she? Those talking points are really for members only.
This church sounds great, and at one point in life you are an adult and grow up and make your own decisions. No where in the persons last comments did I see that anyone was forced to do anything. So I don't believe they would make you do something you wouldn't want to. I say go a couple more times, you are old enough to know if it is something you will or will not like. As far as the last post, there are plenty of churches that have people have financial obligations, however, from my research of The Supreme Council of the House of Jacob the members can see where ever penny of their money goes to, the last person just sound bitter, and I feel sorry for you. However, why discourage someone else to find God where ever it maybe. You said it wasn't until you left that you found God, however, no where did I read you telling someone where you found God. So instead of discouraging someone to find God, you should encourage. So sad, if the people are great people, and you left, and say things like this.. then that makes me question your personality, and credibility.
I agree with the last post. Where did you find God? It sounds to me that this church didn't work for you,but that doesn't mean he wouldn't like it. They are not permitted to partake in recreational activities? They make up their own holidays? It sounds like you have a vengeance against this church for some reason. And a cult is defined as an religious organization that doesn't fit the mainstream of religions.. Such as catholic, etc. I may not be a member but it upsets me when someone puts down anyone's church, no matter what they may think of it. As long as you are worshiping God WHO CARES! and I mean that. What won't work for you, doesn't mean it won't work for me. Shame on you, and you better be careful talking ill about anyone's church, because no matter where people worship we are all worshiping the same God, and he doesn't like ugly. I will keep you in my prayers.
I am the one who wrote the comment about going and visiting and enjoying myself and having met no greater people.
As a matter of fact, the person who responded having been a member for twenty years, was right. Since I wrote, I turned 18 and became a member. They encouraged me to wait until I was an adult and all before I joined especially since I was the only one from my family to join. They were very supportive and didn't pressure me into joining or anything like that.
Anyway, I just want to say a few things defending MY Church now. The first thing I ever heard come out of Father's mouth (The Supreme Bishop) was "I am not God." No one ever calls him God and if you would have paid attention in the Church you attended for twenty years, you would have heard about Jesus who is preached on every service. Jesus is our example and Savior and I'm sorry that you never understood that while you were a member.
As far as financial obligations, there is tithing (10 % just as it says in the Bible). That doesn't seem extreme to me. The only other time you really pay for anything is when there are meals and stuff like that.
Really, I encourage everyone to go to the HOuse of Jacob nearest them. It is life changing and everything makes so much sense. Go in with an open mind and be willing to think for yourself and I know that you will see how truly wonderful the House of Jacob is.
1. Nothing that I said about SCHOJ is untrue and no one who has posted anything in subsequent comments refutes the facts as I have stated, except for the part about the money. And, as far as that goes, I do not fault any church for collecting tithes, but the church requires financial obligations that go beyond that. For example, they require financial payments for things such as "Day's Labor" where members must give the church a full day's pay once a year. There is an obligation called "Rally" in which members must give as much money as they can, beyond tithes and offerings, either one or two times a year depending on what the church wants.
2. Nowhere in my post did I say that anyone should or should not go to SCHOJ to at least check out what it's all about. This guy never even asked for a recommendation. Of course, no one can experience anything for you. You have to make up your own mind. But, when a group is as secretive as SCHOJ is, the only way to know what's going on is to spend a lot of time with it or get information from someone who has been there.
3. As far as the one who presumes to question my personality and credibility, sharing some facts about this church and explaining the reason that I believe it is a cult is hardly the same as discouraging someone to find God. And for those who want to know, I found God when a Christian that I worked with shared her testimony with me and when another Christian friend did the same. Both of them lovingly explained the whole story of Jesus, not just the bits and pieces that I got from the church. This was something that no one in the church was ever able to explain to me in a way that made complete sense. I began going to another church, even though at times it was awkward because SCHOJ taught that they were the only good church out there and that everyone else was bad. Thank God I learned the truth and I no longer feel awkward.
4. I think that the person with the overly broad definition of cult is wrong. It's not like a cult should be defined as any non-denominational religious organization out there. It's the fact that SCHOJ is secretive and insular and uses fear tactics (emotional and psychological, not physical) to keep people from leaving that I find troubling. And, yes they do make up their own holidays. Anniversary Day is January 1, to celebrate the founding of the church. Israel's Day is July 4 to celebrate the Founder's Birthday, Memorial Day is May 19 to honor the date of the Founder's death. Thanksgiving Day is to celebrate the births of the second and third leaders. SCHOJ does not celebrate Christmas or Easter or any other holiday that anyone else in the world would celebrate because they want to be different. No holidays for Jesus, just for the leaders.
And, by the way, I never said that they were not permitted to partake in recreational activities. I said that they could not partake in recreational activities in which non-members are present and I gave you concrete examples. And, why would they do that? Because SCHOJ refers to anyone who is not a member as "worldly" and "the beast." That is not vengeance. It's just true.
5. Word to the wise, when you spout trite lines like God doesn't like ugly, you make it harder for people to take you seriously.
6. As for the member. When I read that you were encouraged to wait until you were an adult before joining, I was pleasantly surprised. I know many young people who did not wait or know what they were getting into when they joined. So if you are happy with it, good for you. I mean that.
And, I am happy that your leader has stated that he was not God. But, I have to say that even that is a confusing message, and I'll tell you why. Now I don't know if they have changed the rules since I left or not. But when I was going there, if the congregation was singing songs of praise and worship to God, they had to put the praise on pause if the leader walked into the sanctuary until he directed them to go on. I find this problematic. For if he is not God to the people, why would the people allow worship to be interrupted by his entrance? Who has greater priority? And, while SCHOJ does say that Jesus is our example and our Savior, they never taught, at least while I was there about the circumstances of his birth, the circumstances of the resurrection and his appearing to his disciples and the people, or his ascension to heaven. Those things I learned after leaving the church. For me, those things are important.
All I will say is that the one with the numbered responses sounds angry and like something was done to offend them. The member sounds like he has found a great thing. I think everyone should find out for themselves--it could be the one truth. Who knows? Maybe we should all check out the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob
Yes. Go ahead I challenge anyone to find out for yourselves. That person that sounds so "angry" and "bitter" is telling the truth. For I too was once a member of that GREAT BODY
I WAS A MEMEBER FOR 18YEARS! LEFT FOR 13 AND I AM NOW A MEMEBER AGAIN! I HATED MY LIFE WHEN I WAS NOT A MEMBER! BUT THAT'S ALL BEHIND ME! THANKING GOD VERY DAY!
Wonderful Post .. I have also attended the House of Jacob it is a good starter church , but there will come a time when you will want direct experience , and no church on earth can give you that ...All religions come from one source..SO if it leads you to a loving relationship with God and others you are on the right path...Much LuV!
In response to the writer who said they were a member and then left and then came back...
If that website about the church was valid and the "horrible things" actually took place, then why would someone long to come back? Why would they put themselves through that "torture" and "pressure?"
Sounds to me like the church, like nearly every organization on earth, had a couple of rogue members who saw it their duty to bring the church down. From what I know and have read, I see no reason why people shouldn't go check it out. I think it would be great to go find out for yourselves (and myself) where religious and spiritual comfort might be found.
please I beg you, don't go back. the person that numbered the comments is telling the real truth about the organization. As the Bible states, we perish from the lack of knowledge. Remember everything that glitter is not necessarily gold...
Why would someone sit you on a back pew,not allow you to stand and give worship to GOD, because of a sin you committed, when GOD himself does not restrict you from praising Him? That alone should cause your eyebrows to rise.
This is one of the practices of the HOJ that sets them apart from a traditional house of faith......
Religious conversations always intrigue me because everyone believes that their religion is the right one. In every aspect in life we have rules. Government has laws, when you start a new job they give you a code of conduct book but when a church or religions sets rules for its memebers its terrible? Catholism, Methodist, Muslim and many other religions have very harsh rules for different things. I don't see anything wrong with being expected to carry yourself in a certain way one thing that God gives us is the power of (CHOICE) you choose what you can deal with but realize even though it may not be right for you it could be what someone else needs. I never heard anyone say anything negative about the biblical teachings of this church. Modern day we call those people HATERS. I never believe websites I can almost guarantee that you can take almost any subject type it in to google and find out something bad about it. My friend do whats right for you no one can tell you how to worship God...Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to belittle or lessen what happened to anyone. But as "Believer" we have to be able to differentiate what is God and what is "NOT GOD" meaning people give God a bad wrap you can go in to any church and find something bad about it if you are looking for it.
These are all interesting comments about this church. I too have a unique family experience with this church. My Grandmother was a pastor and gave our family land to the church. We first held church on my my Grandmothers front porch, we have been giving to the building fund for a sanctuary ever since I can remeber. The facility has never been built. I am 44 years old now, there should be enough in the account to have built a sanctuary by now. I was excummunicated from the church because I married outside of the church. Something to do with my character, however I am the first person in my entire family to have gone to college enjoyed a successful military career and now attending theology school. I found this site because I am doing research on a paper I have due. No matter what facts tha are presented on this blog people are still going to walk away with there own opinions until they have a personal family story tell, which is longer than a year or so. I give it some time. I love my Grandmother for all that she taught me, but she gave everything to the survival of the church and she did it because she beieved in God. Everything else is up for serious debate and until you study religion you will understand why the church is questionable as a lay Christian.
With all due respect, if it was easy to stay on the straight and narrow path, it would be a little wider. Perhaps those that criticize should consider whether or not they are strong enough to go by strict or demanding lifestyle guidelines. If people didn't like all that Satan brings to the table in the form of money, fun, excitement, etc, then they would see that the true joy comes from God.
To the last writer who was excommunicated: I believe people are to marry inside the Church for this very reason: you left. You let someone take you away, but that is no excuse either. There is a scripture that asks, "Who shall separate you"...and the answer is not anyone but yourself. You may be a very learned person with vast religious knowledge, but if you really believe in what the ONE TRUE CHURCH teaches, you know we have a merciful God. I truly pity the one who speaks against God or His Church. But, the good news is, 2010 will be a year of forgiveness and prosperity. Come on back. Now that you are older and wiser, if you open your heart, you will find the Truth. God Bless.
I am interested in know more about this way of life. As I am not a Chrisitian nor holiness but Muslim(one that submits to the only one God). I know individuals tht attend the tabernacle but to no avail I have yet to get a comprehensive understanding of the teachings. As God's creations we should worship God alone and no found fathers,leaders, priest deacons etc... Each human being is equal unless anointed as Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (peace and blessing be upon them). I too wonder how man can be so critical of one another when GOD is most forgiving and his mercy is endless. There are alot of misconceptions being stated as GOD's way or word etc... We first should understand that of the 3 Abrahamic faiths(juddahism, christianity and islam) none of them were in english language. So any american calling themselves christian or holiness must learn or attempt to learn the faith in it's original language in order to grasp a full understanding. For many years, religion has been the tool to guide and misguide people. Amongst people we have all kinds with hidden agendas etc... I beg of you to seek out what Jesus (as) message truly was. It was not to worship him, make holidays to benfit man, or to carry on as being holy than though. But to submit to God's will(muslim) and display acceptance of and submission to God, and believers must demonstrate this by worshipping him, following his commands, and avoiding bad, and do good(islam). I truly would like to know more about the teachings of SHOJ. Remember people can be reformed, wrong training can be undone only by effort and the will of the LORD. I wish not to offend anyone just have dialogue with you to gain an understanding. Peace
Here are also some questions:
Do you worship your forefathers, leaders and recognize Jesus(AS) as GOD?
If Jesus(as) is God who does he kneel on the ground and pray to throught is time on earth?
If Jesus (as) makes ablution prior to praying and gets down on his hands and knees to pray. Why do not you?
The word House of Jacob refers to the "CHILDREN OF ISRAEL" are they not recognized as Jews and should your practice be similiar(old testament etc...)?
Similarities plus misunderstanding- the jewish woman wear loose fit clothing and cover their heads all the time, muslim woman wear loose clothing and wear a head covering all the time. SHOJ woman are not to wear jeans to church and wear a for of hat partial head covering. The message is clear- woman are to dress modestly and cover their precious ornaments(bosoms and hair) but somewhere the message was misconstured. Chrisitian woman/men have made this into a fashion show. Look around if i said something in error forgive me but the last time i went to the tabernacle i had to hold my head down to avoid temptation. Individuals dress but naked at the same time. This is not wht the LORD ordered. Men hugging and kissing woman that they have not married. This is an intro to fornacation innocent not at all. No man/woman should kiss hug on the opposite sex unless they are blood relatives.
Trinitiy- can you explain how 3=1 and do you understand the history of the tritarians and unitarians?
If GOD WORD IS GODS WORD then how can one revise it? Does it not then become man's word?
Good is universal and we shall find it within all 3 Abrahamic faiths.
Do you know who Saul of Tarsas was?
Are your Holy-days identified by Jesus (as)or Moses (as)? If not then who mentioned these days of worship and why are they adhered too?
I know this is alot but please dialogue is good. I like your tabernacle building in oh just want to know more. Please this is not to offend anyone but as Abraham (as) did it is are responsibility to dispel falsehood and seek the truth. Regardless of tradition bc they can and have been wrong.
I was married to a man who was a member of the SCHOJ. He was excommunicated for marrying me..but went before the board and was reinstated. Everything that the person that left the church said was true. They are a cult and they do make up their own holidays. They do not celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving etc.. I do have a son with this man...and stood firm that our son would not be raised in this church. I forgot to mention the wildgame day...where they eat deer, rabbits and numerous other wild animals. They have land called the farm in Coshocton County with dorms, nursing homes, laundry mats, tabernacle, and houses. They do pay hommage to their leaders and not God. They do have their own song books and such. When they take communion they stand before the church and confess their sins. The person is telling the truth. If you wake up one day and find yourself in AFrica or Ohio...don't say you were not warned (Jonestown). But please don't drink the kool aid! I was never made to feel apart of the family. BE CAREFUL and DON'T GET CAUGHT UP!
The last comment, whether you are in this church or not, is offensive and rude. Just because you do not believe like they do does not mean it is not right or it is a cult. I for one don't think it's so strange that they do not celebrate Christmas. A lot of people don't. Are Jews or Muslim's a part of a cult? I would say not. The last poster is obviously ignorant and intolerant. If there's one thing I would like to add to this discussion, it is to be tolerant of all people. Whether or not you believe as these people believe, you have no place to mock, criticize or judge someone else's religion. If you do not respect their beliefs, at least have enough respect for the members of the church that you do not make such cruel remarks. They can read this just as well as anyone else. There's much that could be misinterpreted or misunderstood about all religions. There is no place in this world for intolerance, unless it be the intolerance of the rude, devious, and outright mean remarks that some have made in this discussion.
Ok, I was born and raised in this church. I left when I was 18 years old. I can tell you that everything you pretty much hear about the church being a cult is very true. This is not to say that there aren't good people there, because I still have relatives and friends who go. My parents are still there.
When you leave or marry out of the "fold" which means the person you marry is not a member of the church, you get kicked out. You must go through a a group of members deemed "The Board" to be reinstated. I have achieved a WONDERFUL life outside of the teachings of this church, and will not let my children ever go there. This is because we were taught that we were superior, and that this church was the greatest.
Also, worshipping the leader was a commom practice. I was taught that the leader was the reincarnation of Jesus himself. Some members will say no he isn't, and some will say yes he is. You will see his photo in every church above the pulpit and make-shift thrown that he sits at when he visits a certain church. His photo is in every members home, including my parents and grandmothers.
I will not judge nor defend the teachings and actions of this body of believers. It is a choice. I use to be so hard-core against the teachings and the people because of how I was raised, but now I realize that it will be by choice. Leaving was the best thing that ever happend to me. And I've never been back. I could go in soooooo much depth about my growing up in the church, and NO ONE could dispute my evidence. All I have to say is seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness, and all things will be added unto you. Including knowledge.
I am 20 years old. I was born and raised in the SCHOJ. I am no longer a member because of my decision to have pre-marital sex. The church does up hold the bible when it comes to situations as mine. The bible even says "Be ye not unequally yoked"...this can mean many things. Sex, out of church marriage, sexual orientation....ect.....I have read these comments and some make very good points. But I must say that in all of my years at the HOJ have I ever heard of anyone forcing anybody to do anything! And for some to say that they use scare tactics??? HA!!! LOOK BEYOND THE VEIL!!! songs sermons and scriptures cannot be taken for face value...but you must allow the spirit of God to interpret! The one comment mentioned the song "After you fall you will be grievious......" but he failed to mention that the next line is "Leaving the Lord you will get heavy..." I can attest to the fact that after I quit going my life became as a dry desert! The HOJ is an awesome church! And for some, you need to be updated on the church...things have changed...obviously the church seen that some things did not work...Wild Game dinners?? no longer in existence....days labor??? def no longer in existence! ..... I do plan to become a member again as soon I straighten my life out with my new family..... THE HOJ IS A CHOICE!! YOU HAVE TO SEE IT YOURSELF!!! a lot of the negative posts are from ex members who did not get their way....acting like school children and posting negative things! Thats alright!!! God is the judge! The HOJ does not down other religions or churches...but as any other church they do strongly encourage you to attend! God Bless All of You!
TO THE MEMBERS: I would like to know what the initials behind the forefathers names represent....P.O.I., S.O.T and J.I.S. and exactly what do they mean!!!
why does the H.O.J. believe that it is the ONLY right church when the bible clearly states that if you" believe in your heart and confess with your mouth you will be saved" with no stipulations on a particular church...the bible also says that if we "confess our sins, He (Jesus) will forgive us and cleanse us".....so why so many excommunications???
P.O.I= Pope Of Israel, S.O.T.= Son Of Thunder, and I dont really remember what J.I.S stands for. I was born into the hoj and went for 16 years until i decided i'd had enough. They had me so brainwashed that even as i decided to stop going, i still believed that it was the one and only right church and i was going to hell for leaving it. I just couldn't take the ridiculous rules anymore. But after a couple years and alot of thinking i realized what a joke that place really is. Its sad they have so many good people believing their lies. A lot of them my family. If you are interested in a church that wants to control every aspect of your life with lies and scare tactics, then by all means check out the hoj.
The Bible states that there is ONE Lord ONE faith and ONE babtism. That is why there is ONE Church. There is also a scripture that says "Blessed are ye when men speak evil of you" meaning that people will say bad things about the poeple of God. People speak badly about what they do not understand. If there is just a miniscule chance that the HOJ is the one true Church as God started it back in the Garden of Eden, I don't think I would speak evil of it. A story of the rich man and Lazarus tells of the rich man (one who thinks he knows everything and has everything) finding out that he may have wealth but does not have spiritual riches. He pleads for just a drop of water (the true word of God) from Lazarus the poor, yet righteous man. At some point in everyone's lives, they are going to have to make tough decisions. Leaving the place where your help comes from (the house of God) is not the answer. Because you can't find it within yourself to ignore the false doctrines, do not bring down the good people on God's straight and narrow way. And just because the HOJ believes to be the only pure religion does not mean that they speak down on other churches. Rather, they teach respect towards all and acceptance of those different so long as you do not compromise your own purity. The moral of the story is: Don't speak poorly about things you do not understand. As the rich man learned, you never know which one of God's people you have hurt. We are all God's children, some chosen for the Kingdom now, others may have their number called-- maybe when they least expect it?
Remember it can not be a true religion becasue Jesus never said anything about A "SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE HOUSE OF JACOB". The house of jacob refers to the jews and we were not adhering to the jews faith by nomeans. We got our own set of made-up traditions and holidays. Its a mess and people worshipping elders and forefathers more that the lord himself. There is only one god this is true but there are many brainwashing tabernacles and phony bishops. I really have learned to stay clear away even from family bc Jesus never said to do or believe like they teaching. But generation after generation of pure brainwashing. They the biggest sinners for feeding the people these lies about his teachings. (John 5:37) – “And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.” "there is no God but one [hen]" 1 Corinthians 8:4 They taught the trinity and 1+1+1=3 not one. Please correct yourself and stop teach our people nonsense. I could not get a strait answer about who the people of the house of jacob were. When i found out they (bishop P-son) condemn me to the back of the congregation. I asked of the book of barnabas as well. So read and it will set u free people!!! Jesus did no soul clapping or monkey dances. or played instruments these are big fat lies!!
Wow you sound very ignorant and confused. I'm not even sure what's going on with this whole thing, but from everything I have seen my whole life, the House of Jacob is nothing like what you describe. Rather, it is a place that teaches of one God. Because youo don't understand the trinity doesn't mean there is no such thing. You just can't understand I guess. I'm not brainwashed and joined the Church on my own. I read on my own and made my own decisions. And let's get one thing straight. NO ONE worships "elders and forefathers." We worship God, only God, no questions about it. You obviously never saw the light when you were in the Church. I'm sorry for your loss.
I am very close with some members of the House of Jacob. From what I understand, the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob do not believe Jesus = God. Do the people of SCHOJ believe Jesus was an enlightened man who taught about God, and that the spirit of Jesus is now in their leader? I also was told that they believe in reincarnation of a sort: Jesus' soul came back in the body of the gardener, not that Jesus was simply mistaken for the gardener. They believe that our souls come back again in new bodies and that heaven/hell is a state of mind. They believe that Jesus did not perform physical miracles, but spiritual ones (i.e. Lazarus's soul was resurrected from a spiritual death; his body did not rise from being dead.) Is any of this true for any of you here who belong to the church or otherwise?
Part 1:
Do you worship your forefathers, leaders and recognize Jesus(AS) as GOD?Becasue every home has the forefather pictures posted as a mandate. When i was younger i would see all sorts of images of jesus(as) be he white or black. So why does everyone acknowledge these forefather before everything is that not worshipping them? giving them more praise than the lord of jesus and us as well.
If Jesus(as) is God who does he kneel on the ground and pray to throught is time on earth? A GOD has no beginning or end. And we know when Jesus arrived etc...
If Jesus (as) makes ablution prior to praying and gets down on his hands and knees to pray. Why do not you?
The word House of Jacob refers to the "CHILDREN OF ISRAEL" are they not recognized as Jews and should your practice be similiar(old testament etc...)?
Similarities plus misunderstanding- the jewish woman wear loose fit clothing and cover their heads all the time, muslim woman wear loose clothing and wear a head covering all the time. SHOJ woman are not to wear jeans to church and wear a for of hat partial head covering. The message is clear- woman are to dress modestly and cover their precious ornaments(bosoms and hair) but somewhere the message was misconstured. Chrisitian are not wearing the mention garments in their daily affairs just when its church time. Like going to work you put on your suit for the moment. Is that not hypocritical or is more of a misunderstanding.
People the Trinitiy is a proven insertion by Athanasius, the bishop who formulated this doctrine, confessed that the more he wrote on the matter, the less capable he was of clearly expressing his thoughts regarding it.
Jesus never called himself GOD and throughout the bible GOD has many sons. Metaphorically!!- can you explain how 3=1 and do you understand the history of the tritarians and unitarians?
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4)
The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)
Part 2:
Let's put this together in a different form: one person, God the Father + one person, God the Son + one person, God the Holy Ghost = one person, God the
What?
Is this English or is this gibberish?
In Matthew 28:19, we find Jesus telling his disciples to go out and preach to all nations. While the "Great Commission" does make mention of the three persons who later become components of the Trinity, the phrase "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" is quite clearly an addition to Biblical text - that is, not the actual words of Jesus - as can be seen by two factors:
1) Baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and
2) The "Great Commission" was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost - see Mark 16:15.
If GOD WORD IS GODS WORD then how can one revise it? Does it not then become man's word?
Do you know who Saul of Tarsas was?
Paul of Tarsus, the man who could rightfully be considered the true founder of Christianity, did formulate many of its doctrines, that of the Trinity was not among them.
Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father
It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion.
The majority of Christians, when asked to explain this fundamental doctrine of their faith, can offer nothing more than "I believe it because I was told to do so." It is explained away as "mystery" - yet the Bible says in I Corinthians 14:33 that "... God is not the author of confusion..."
Are your Holy-days identified by Jesus (as)or Moses (as)? If not then who mentioned these days of worship and why are they adhered too?
I know this is alot but please dialogue is good. I like your tabernacle building in ohio just want to know more. Please this is not to offend anyone but as Abraham (as) did it is are responsibility to dispel falsehood and seek the truth. Regardless of tradition bc they can and have been wrong.
Woow! those are interesting questions and I too would like to hear them answered. This some information I will look into myself. For years I have been attending and i can not answer your questions listed.
Alright, I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability. Keep in mind that there are some things you will just not agree with, there are some things you may not understand, there are some things I may not articulate correctly, and there are some things I do not know. I do not, just because I am steadfast in my faith, believe that I am all-knowing. I do however believe in the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob and everything it teaches. I was not born in the Church, but joined on my own. I do not know everything, but I can try my best. We are to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, so if this dialogue brings just one person to Church, it's worth it. So, here it goes:
First of all, we DO NOT WORSHIP THE FOREFATHERS AS GOD! We do believe they have been touched by the spirit to lead the Church, each for a dispensation of time. There is no mandate that there is a picture of anyone in our homes. Some chose to have the pictures because they are proud of the Supreme Bishop and chose to display the picture. This does not mean that we worship Him as God. Don't most people have pictures in their homes of family members, friends, etc? When we pray, we pray to God the Father, not the Father of the Church, there is a distinct difference that must be acknowledged.
2. Jesus is not God, but a part of the trinity. Whether you chose to believe in the trinity is up to you, but I for do. There is a Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Jesus, in His time, I'm sure prayed to God as is referenced in the Bible.
3. I do get on my knees to pray or I stand and bow my head.
4. Israel refers to God's people. We are a spiritual Church because God is a spirit. We must think about the Bible spiritually. Everything may not always be as it appears.
5. I'm not exactly sure about everything regarding women's clothing, but I do know that we do not wear jeans at any time, not just to Church. We are to wear skirts or dresses, clothes becoming of a lady.
6. Our Holy Days were identified through motions carried by the Board of Directors. We celebrate the days, all of which mean something to the House of Jacob, as was directed by the Holy Spirit.
Hopefully this answered a lot of questions. Dialogue is good, but remember, respect is key for dialogue to continue.
If you go down, uphold this gospel!
Praise the Lord
I had no idea about this web-site until my cousin(non-member) brought it to my attention. I am a member and have been my whole life. Some of these people that are bad-mouthing the church only let's me see my blessing. I don't fault any of you for your OPINIONS of what the SCHOJ stands for and teaches because I accepted Jesus Christ(the Holy Spirit) as my personal savior a long time ago. I have nothing but love for everyone, even my enemies, and will continue to pray for everyone. I'm not going to get into the rules and regulations because they are for the ones that believe without ceasing. But, I am going to say that if you want to learn about the SCHOJ, then come and learn for yourself. Don't take what others are telling you becuase Job 2:1 says that "again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord. And Satan came also among them to present himslf before the Lord." I thank God that He showeth His word unto Jacob, His statutes and His judgements until Israel(Psalm 147:19-20). This doctrine is not for everybody but it can be if you would seek the Spirit and get out of the flesh. I have said enough, but there is plenty of more Holy Bible that I can defend the SCHOJ with. God bless each and every one of you. Much love!
Umm ok wow.
So our church has it's own holidays. Calm down. Lot's of organizations have special days.
*. What is wrong with a church celebrating it's anniversary? Don't we as Americans celebrate the founding of our country. I take pride in my church (which was provided by GOD) because it saved my life, so I do not see what the big deal is about a church celebrating it's founding. Yes, we recognize our Spiritual leaders' birthdays just as we pay respect to Martin Luther King Jr. on his birthday. So what?? Regardless of whether you believe the teachings or not, these were men who made sacrifices for God. Really this is what God asks of all of us, but do we have the courage to do it...no. So I thank them for having the courage or I may not have the relationship with GOD I do today.
*. And the Christmas issue always makes me want to scream. AHHHHh! No, members of the House of Jacob don't celebrate Christmas in the worldly (and yea I said worldly...ooooo) sense. We don't go carolling, hang lights, put up Christmas trees, or spends hundreds of dollars on gifts for friends & family. But please tell me what that has to do with the birth of Jesus anyway?? What do other Christians do to celebrate Christmas. Answer: Go to church. Where can you find us all day Sunday, Tuesday night, and Friday night. Hmmm? CHURCH! We celebrate the birth of Jesus everyday by living as He asked us to. We don't need it to be December 25th to be kind, happy, and giving people.
*. WE DO NOOOOOOOOOT WORSHIP THE FATHERS OF OUR CHURCH. period. Yes, we honor and respect them, but that is not equivalent to worship. Father says this time and time again that HE IS NOT GOD. PLEASE...I BEG YOU! Any service you come to it it clear who we are worshipping and it's not Father! Listen to the sermon. Listen to the songs. We glorify GOD at our church. I promise you.
I am 19 years old and have been a member of the HOJ my entire life and we have never had a picture of the Fore Fathers in our home. It's not mandatory and it's definitely not a big deal if you don't have one. sheesh.
And true you will find a picture of Father George Washington on the walls of every HOJ edifice because we are a spiritual church and do not put a face on God. Personally, I don't see Jesus as a white man. God/Jesus can look like whatever you believe Him to look like...it doesn't really matter because we are worshipping His spirit, not His flesh.
There are still many things that I am trying to understand about my church. I was born into the church but I wan't to truly be able to say that I chose this way for myself. There are certain church rules that I do not follow, and if I had to suffer the consequences for breaking the rules as a member I couldn't be salty about it. If the regulations are too stringent for you, then do not become a member or leave. It's that simple. No one forces you to stay. Everyone wants things to be their way and for religion to be convenient for them. It's about changing for God, not His religion to change to be suitable for us.
I just do not understand why a religious organization would tell its members that it's unrighteous to attend a school dance where young people will most likely be grinding on each other to songs with vulgar lyrics?? Let the kids have their fun!
I do not understand the rationale of not letting kids play school sports or go to other school activities. Yes, there will be bad people who do bad things. The children of your church cannot go through life only associating with other church members. There are good and bad people in the world, and some of both types are in the church. Humans are a mixed bunch. Jesus did not avoid "worldly," dangerous places. He went to those places to have a positive influence on people who were lost, and that is how Christians should act also.
The rationale is very simple. It has nothing to do with not letting kids be around "worldly" people. It has everything to do with the fact that sports and dances and things like that take kids away from being at Church.
On another note, there are a lot of major world religions who do not support dancing. Whether or not their members honor those rules is a different story.
People should really stop trying to tear down the Church because of things they know nothing about. The rules are all common sense. There's no crazy off-the-wall things about the House of Jacob. And remember, it's all from the Bible! Come and listen and you will see! The Church isn't for everyone but if people spent as much time trying to understand the Church as they do criticizing it so much good would come of it!
Since the dawn of time people have been mysteriously interested in the unknown. I want to separate fact from fiction, belief from fact and begin to heal all people from the vestiges of imperialism, religiosity, and separatism.
The SC of the HOJ was a vision of the Founder. In history the Founder is truly a unique man. I applaud him for seeking the truth about himself and his people how beit limited to early 20th century circumstances of limited access to education. The Founder read a story of a people that had been in suffering, slavery, oppression and God called on Moses to lead these people out of Egypt to Freedom and the Founder could quickly identify with this story.....as 1910 is only 45 years post the 1865 Emancipation Proclamation and freedom of slaves.
I want you all for a minute to pause for a minute and think about what the early 20th century was like in this country.
1909
The average life expectancy was 47 years.
Only 14 percent of homes had a bathtub.
Only 8 percent of homes had a telephone.
There were only 8,000 cars and only 144 miles of paved roads.
The maximum speed limit in most cities was 10 mph.
The tallest structure in the world was the Eiffel Tower
The average wage in 1909 was 22 cents per hour.
The average worker made between $200 and $400 per year ....
A competent accountant could expect to earn $2000 per year,
A dentist $2,500 per year, a veterinarian between $1,500 and $4,000 per year, and a mechanical engineer about $5,000 per year.
More than 95 percent of all births took place at HOME.
Ninety percent of all doctors had NO COLLEGE EDUCATION!
Instead, they attended so-called medical schools, many of which were condemned in the press AND the government as ‘substandard’
Sugar cost four cents a pound.
Eggs were fourteen cents a dozen.
Coffee was fifteen cents a pound.
Most women only washed their hair once a month, and used Borax or egg yolks for shampoo.
Canada passed a law that prohibited poor people from entering into their country for any reason…
Three leading causes of death were:
1. Pneumonia and influenza
2. Tuberculosis
3. Diarrhoea
Two out of every 10 adults couldn't read or write.
Only 6 percent of all Americans had graduated from high school.
The Founder had learned to read!!!!!! So it is not unusual with his new ability to read he would be curious about why this world worked against his people so strongly. The Founder quickly identified with the Bible story as similar to the plight of African people in the Americas and this God delivered these people for the hand of a evil Pharoah.
Now I don’t know about you but if I had been the Founder I would surely want to make a connection with God who had these capabilities to help his plight and the plight of other decedents of slaves.
“The Great Migration was the movement of 1.75 million African Americans out of the Southern United States to the North, Midwest and West from 1910 to 1930. Precise estimates of the number of migrants depend on the time frame. African Americans migrated to escape racism and seek employment opportunities in industrial cities. Some historians differentiate between the First Great Migration (1910–40), numbering about 1.6 million migrants, and the Second Great Migration, from 1940 to 1970. In the Second Migration, 5 million or more people relocated, with the migrants moving to more new destinations. Many moved from Texas and Louisiana to California where there were jobs in the defense industry. From 1965–70, 14 states of the South, especially Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi, contributed to a large net migration of blacks to the other three Census-designated regions of the United States. “
Now that we’ve understand the Founder and his times. Let’s have a thought provoking discussion about religion.
I first want you readers to step into the Founders shoes. The HOJ you see today comes from a man with a true vision. It is astonishing that he was spiritually able to re-create what would become a similar organization to that which predated slavery, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, and Christianity.
To truly understand religion you must understand History or better yet OUR STORY. You have to be a student of the timeline. As an educator of three generations once said “History is not everything, but it is a starting point. History is a clock that people use to tell their political and cultural time of day. It is a compass they use to find themselves on the map of human geography. It tells them where they are, but more importantly, what they must be."
You have to understand our story as a people on this earth. You have to understand that they who control literature will control societies and religion. Religeon will become the hand maiden of conquerors.
All concepts of a God or spirituality come to us from Nile Valley Civilization! A people called Nubians will introduce to the world a spirituality that would be misinterpreted as religion. My God is greater than your God.
Most religious people do not understand time! The events that happened 5 minutes ago, 5years ago, 5 centuries ago, 5 millennia ago will effect what will happen 5 minutes from now, 5 years from now, 5 centuries from now, 5 millennia from now, History is a current event.
So let’s approach this like the Founder. Let’s seek sources for our discourse. What did our ancestors leave for us? What is fact and what is fiction? What is the true source of the Bible, Who is King James or James Stuart the first of England? Who is Alexander the Great or Greek? Who is Ptolemy the 1’st Soter? Who is Constantine? Who is Serapis Christus and why did Emperor Constantine change his name to Jesus Chritus at the Catholic Ecumenical Conference on Nicea in 325 AD? Why the need for a Creed out of the Roman Catholic church? Why the Council Chalcedon in 451 AD? What is BC and or AD. Most would believe its Before Christ and After Death….NO ….How About before the common era or Ana Domini a latin word that means The year of our GOD! Why does time decline to zero and we now have 2010?
Now the Bible mentions our ancestors in Genesis 11th Chapter versus 1 – 9. You may need a Hebrew dictionary to follow me or verify me. I certainly may have missed spelled some of the ancient Hebrew names. Please bare with me as this is a labor of LOVE!
Genesis 11 Chapter
1And the whole earth was of one language (Safa binded people together), and of one speech.
2And it came to pass, as they journeyed (nasar- to be pulled up by the root, depart) from the east (quodem - that was what was before…ancient times), that they found a plain – biqeh – valley…a very low place…. in the land (in a hell- a land with no return) of Shinar or Babylon aka (Rome); and they dwelt - yashwt ( sat down settled in) there.
3And they said – amar- proudly say in ones heart to think with intent) one iysh….the male men……. to another woman or weaker sex), Go to, let us make brick laban –to make white – ethilogical cleansing, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4And they said, Go to, let us build banah – rebuild; reestablish; reclaim our history…cause to continue and be the way it ought to be”….. us a city and a tower migdol – pyramid…….elevevated stage….pulpit ……, whose top rosch..chief….headman…. may reach unto heaven…..ancestors; and let us make us a name (shem) that which establishes reputation…memorial…., lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5And the LORD jehova- (the existing one in power)…came down to see (raha – inspect…watch…..) the city and the tower, which the children –(decendents) of men builded.
6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this…zey - they begin chala – to profane ..comment…defile …dilute ..damage…violate what has been set in place…) to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
The Founder wanted to restore us to our beginning (no matter how limited his education), SPIRITUALLY he was on the right track!
Now I ask all of you that are decedents of this 100 year legacy to reach back further than the Founder for this hidden TRUTH about these ancient people who so inspired the world and mainly the western civilizations beginning. Remember East IS THE BEGINNING.
Remember even Dr. Martin Luther King in his papers at Boston College gave credence to the ancestors of the Nile Valley Civilization.
"The Influence of the Mystery Religions on Christianity"
[29 November 1949-15 February 1950]
[Chester, Pa.]
King wrote this paper for the course Development of Christian Ideas, taught by Davis. The essay examines how Christianity developed as a distinct religion with a set of central tenets and how it was influenced by those pagan religions it assimilated. King repeats material from an earlier paper, "A Study of Mithraism," but he extends the discussion here to the influence of other mystery religions. Davis gave the essay an A, stating: "This is very good and I am glad to have your conclusion. It is not so much that Christianity was influenced by the Mystery Cults, or borrowed from them, but that in the long process of history this religion developed. It, Christianity, is the expression of the longing of people for light, truth, salvation, security.
"That is, with this study you have made, we see the philosophy both of Religion and History. Underneath all expression, whether words, creeds, cults, ceremonies is the spiritual order--the [ever] living search of men for higher life--a fuller life, more abundant, satisfying life.
"That is essential. Never stop with the external, which may seem like borrowing, but recognize there is the perennial struggle for truth, fuller life itself. So through experience, knowledge, as through other forms, the outer manifestations of religion change. The inner spiritual, continues ever."
The Greco-Roman world in which the early church developed was one of diverse religions. The conditions of that era made it possible for these religions to sweep like a tidal wave over the ancient world. The people of that age were eager and zealous in their search for religious experience. The existence of this atmosphere was vitally important in the development and eventual triumph of Christianity.
These many religions, known as Mystery-Religions, were not alike in every respect: to draw this conclusion would lead to a gratuitous and erroneous supposition. They covered an enormous range, and manifested a great diversity in character and outlook, "from Orphism to Gnosticism, from the orgies of the Cabira to the fervours of the Hermetic contemplative."[Footnote: Angus, The Mystery Religions and Christianity, p. vii.] However it is to be noticed that these Mysteries possessed many fundamental likenesses; (1) All held that the initiate shared in symbolic (sacramental) fashion the experiences of the god. (2) All had secret rites for the initiated. (3) All offered mystical cleansing from sin. (4) All promised a happy future life for the faithful.[Footnote: Enslin, Christian Beginnings, pp. 187, 188.]
It is not at all surprising in view of the wide and growing influence of these religions that when the disciples in Antioch and elsewhere preached a crucified and risen Jesus they should be regarded as the heralds of another mystery religion, and that Jesus himself should be taken for the divine Lord of the cult through whose death and resurrection salvation was to be had. That there were striking similarities between the developing church and these religions cannot be denied. Even Christian apologist had to admit that fact.
So those critics who want to label the HOJ as a cult are actually correct. People have come to use the word cult in the sense of a negative. Let’s explore the definition of Cult.
Wikepedia Definition
Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be, reasonably or unreasonably, considered strange.[1] The term originally denoted a system of ritual practices. The narrower, derogatory sense of the word is a product of the 20th century, especially since the 1980s, and is considered subjective, and is a result of the anti-cult movement, which uses the term in reference to groups seen as authoritarian, exploitative and possibly dangerous.
The popular, derogatory sense of the term has no currency in academic studies of religions, where "cults" are subsumed under the neutral label of "new religious movement", while academic sociology has partly adopted the popular meaning of the term.
This definition would refer to all of Christianity, Islam, and all religions as a cult and the negative sense of it has no academic foundation. Cult just means culture….the way a people decide to live or conduct life.
As far as I can see the HOJ has a history to be proud of . NOW is the time for the next generation to apply knowledge. It’s ok to believe but it’s better to know and although I’m not a member of the HOJ any longer I consider it to be a great cultural heritage unmatched by any other.
It’s beginning will be remembered as an attempt post slavery for self identity and it’s future will be determined by its willingness to continue the search for truth beyond the lenses of the western world as the Founder sought to remove his people from western oppression and unite them as one. The church for all nations!
People involved in this form of worship, I ask that you review and truely study. Do not place something there that is not. Find out about Paul and GOD's WORD. If you look close you will see a trend, each group of people had someone to come to them and remind them of GOD's message. These newly founded religious groups are not wht GOD ordain. Break down the Supreme Council of THE HOUSE OF Jacob via an encylopedia. The "House of Jacob" refers clearly to the JEWS the descendants of Abraham under Isaac. The Arabs were formed under Ishamel Abraham's son, Issacs brother. Therefore, the decendants are cousins and Mary Jesus Mom is a descendant of Isaac oversprings.
Also, ask if we are Jews why do we not follow the JEWISH FAITH. HECKS, WE EAT PIG AND DRINK OURT LIQUOR. Oh, no we cannot give that up. Its clear in the bible, torah and quran these items were never ever okay. Man intervention has allowed it to be acceptable. But look at the tragedy it has cause to so many pig and liquor. I never met an man/woman tht did something they regreted and didnt blame it on the drugs, or the drug of alcohol. Pig not cook properly exposes you to the worms and magets in the meat. come on now! If i cooked rat and put sauce on it will u eat it as well.
You have a combination of their terms, dress, pagan ways(holidays, titles of leadership J.O.G ETC.., and trinitarian believe system) Ask the preacher or deacon to quit the performance and get to the message. Let's do history and read what is spelled out in the bible. NO EXCESSIVE RELIGIOUS FINANCIAL OBLIGATIONS, NO JUDGE OR JURY THAT CAN EVICT ONE FROM THE FAITH, NO SPEAKING IN LANGUAGES ONLY UNDERSTOOD BY THE DEVIL, NO DANCING OR MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS. THE EARLY DAY FOLLOWERS OF JESUS NEVER NEVER INDULGED IN SUCH ACTIVITIES. THESE ARE MAN MADE INVENTIONS STUDY PEOPLE READY AND FOLLOW THE LIFE OF THE MAN U FOLLOW. HE PRAYED ON HIS KNEES AND FACE. NOT IN A FANCY OR LOUD SUITS. HE HAD A BEARD. WHILE YOU CHOOSE TO BE BARE FACED AND WOMAN UNCHASTE. THIS IS A FACT NOT AN OPINION. AS THE READER BEFORE STATED SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH.. NO BIG I's and litte U's. Only thing that separates the people should be whether or not he/she is a believer or a pretender. The message is Clear.
I was born and raise in The Supreme Council of the House of Jacob. I have read the comments posted on this and some other site. I just wanted to say even tho I no longer am a member (by choice) I still live by most of the teachings I have learned growing up. Yes it was sometime difficult growing up in the curch only wearing dresses and not being able to go to school events. But it made me the person I am today. Plus if you really stop and think about it how is that religion any different than some of the others. Look at the mennonite, the omish, jews or any other religion. They all have their own beliefs and way of living. And there members along with society accept them for who they are and do not call them cults. I personally have never been to any other church but the SCHOJ and if I were to go back to church that's where I would go again. I still have family and friends that go there. I am still respected and loved by everyone. And I encourge anyone who is curios to go and make up your mind for your selves.
THIS ORGANIZATION HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED AS A RELIGION, THEREFORE, IT IS NO MORE THAN A CULT/CORPORATE COMPANY. IF WE ARE WRONG, PLEASE PROVIDE THE NAME AND DATE THE THEOLOGIANS HAVE CONFIRMED THIS GROUP AS TRUE FOLLWERS OF CHRIST.
Actually, I have a question about something connected to the church. There is supposed to be a book, "Narcotics: Destroyer of Our Youth" (or something like that) written by one of the church leaders. I have searched for it in libraries and Googled it numerous times, but nothing comes up. Was it ever really published? And if so, how does one acquire a copy?
-Thank you.
As a member of this Church, I am not ashamed or embarassed that our membership is not huge or that we lead a life that may be too strict for others. What satisfaction do you get from calling it a cult? Does it make you feel good about yourself? No one is forced to believe what anyone else does. So why demand answers like they ate owed to you? No one has to provide "annonymous" blogger with the date and place "theologians" deemed it worthy. Did the theologians of Jesus' time deem His way worthy? Hardly. Rather they hung Him from a cross. All that matters is the relationship between each person and God. I love the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob whether you call it a cult or not. The childish name calling of someone else's belief system and bullying by non-believers is exactly why we came to America in the first place.
As far as the book on narcotics is concerned, it is a book that was printed for the purposes of Church members and was distrubuted within the Church. You can ask a member of the Church near you or that you are familiar with if you would like more information. I personally do not own a copy of the book.
The current "father" has initials after his name J.O.G It is my understanding this means Judge of God is this correct and what does that mean?
Why do the cds of the churches songs say not to copy share or lend them to anyone on them?..
Why do they close they're prayers with ..remember lots wife?..
its all a sign of a cult! A group of people that borrowed principles from the jewish faith and added their own twist. Now they have nothing but organized confusion. Its being passed on from on generation to the next. Just ask them a simple question about the religion and the guy got all defensive. Facts are the facts! Slavery is disguised as many things but has the same overall objective. To dumb down the people for someone else's own benefit. I too was dumbfounded until i started to ask questions and do my own research. The truth shall set you free only, if you act on the knowledge obtained. My fellow brothers and sisters, praise the lord! But not in the way we were taught. That is not what Jesus would have wanted. How can a man be the judge of god was my question? This is impossible...a lie and misleading to have behind one's name or for anyone to even profess such. I left but my wife still attends and our children shall never patronize them again. As long as i am living..
Unfortunately, you don't understand. It does not mean that he is a judge of God. In Bible times, a judge was an Israelite leader. Since we are spiritual Israelites, and he is the head of the Church, he would be a Judge of God, meaning FROM God not that he would judge God. That right there is the problem. You didn't ask the questions, or you would have been able to understand. We say "remember Lot's wife" only after prayers before a meal, not after all prayers. That's not something people have to do, but some do and some don't. It only means to remember what God has given you and not to turn back against God like Lot's wife did. Not so weird once you understand it huh? And the CDs don't say not to lend them. They have a copyright clause that says not to remake them. Also something that's not so strange. Check any CD you buy. The reason they wouldn't want you to remake them is because they are sold as a fundraiser for the National Choir. Instead of jumping to conclusions and name calling just TRY to understand. Praise the Lord!
I am searching for clarification... How do the church members incorporate Jesus Christ into their beliefs and practices? What is he to them? Is the church leader considered to be an equal to him?
listen you go by ur mind forget these comments nd listen to wat God has put in ur heart as being a member we are very misunderstood o that of other people im not commenting to perswade u i am commenting so that alll these comments dont get to ur head i pray that u make the right choice.
Hello, I tell you I had no idea that the HOJ (so simple) had so much discussion on the internet. I love talking about the God.
To address the question on 10/28, we incorporate Christ in our everyday lives. We believe in the teachings and gospel of God sent through the spirit of Christ within Jesus. But, as so many have said before in their previous posts. Jesus was just the vessel that God used. Once his natural body went back to the dust (passed on), God placed the spirit "Christ" into another vessel to carry on his church. Jesus was not the first or the last leader of the church. God has used many. We don't call out the name of Jesus because it wasn't about the "man". It was the spirit of God that told us how to live, taught us how to love one another, respect one another, and care for each other.
I have read how people have been hurt. People disagree with the methods used to keep church missions (all over the U.S) afloat. They disagree with the collecting of finances to keep the water, utilities, and building kept-up. People don’t understand respecting and honoring the lives of great men and women who have sacrificed so much to lead God’s people. People don’t get why we choose to live the lives that we live. Jesus said “it is for you to know the mysteries…” It will forever be a mystery why we want to keep the doors of our church open, so, that we as God’s people have a place to assemble ourselves. It is not really mysterious at all. It is pretty simple. SCHOJ is a choice… Like so many have said they left on their own or they did something contrary to what the church stood for and was removed as a member. Being removed from the church doesn’t take the belief in God away from the individual. It doesn’t truly take the gospel or religion away. SCHOJ asks each member to govern themselves the way God asks us to govern our everyday lives. When a member shows signs or does things that makes a statement otherwise. They are no longer seen in fellowship with the rules and regulations. This individual has chosen to live contrary. But, none of this is a mystery. In everyday life, the corporate world, school, etc there are a set of regulations/policies in which one must govern themselves. If a person abuses those policies there are consequences.
Essentially there are good people and there are not so good people. The inappropriate actions of individuals are not the teaching of the rules and regulations of SCHOJ. However, I understand the foundation of how the hurt builds. We believe in living a Holy and Righteous Life. Children don’t understand the “why” of things. If parents do not explain or if a child cannot find adequate understand, they will begin to resent the origin of the teachings. As a result it will place the “SCHOJ” at the center or their misery. But, it stems from a lack of understanding. However, in response to “other” inappropriate things they are not of God or of the teaching of the church. You have to hold the individual(s) accountable. Wrong is not Right!
Thanks everyone for discussing the SCHOJ. No matter what your personal feelings “He shall reign over the House of Jacob forever and of his Kingdom there shall be no end.” –St. Luke 1:33
Someone asked about it not being noted as a Religion. In order for this church to be incorporated it had to prove its doctrine in Washington D.C. This church has been around for 100 +years. We as members of the SCHOJ are telling you that we are followers of Christ. We are bible based and we have a religion. However, you need an internet page to tell you???? (Interesting) Hear and your soul shall live… God Bless you!
--Member SCHOJ--
I as a member have a question, I was advised by Bishop since my husband and i cannot have children that it was okay for either my husband to sleep w a member of the church so another saint would serve as the carrier for our child. If it was my husband with the reproductive problem, it would be okay to have my deacon/bishop to get me pregnant. I want to know is this what the LORD has okayed because we desparately want a child but only by what is approved BY the LORD.
To the individual regarding J.O.G=Judge of God. In english this means Judge of GOD. Please let us not misstate the obvious here. This is the english language and the words Judge of God do not mean what we know it to mean? It is most important not to point fingers but to shed light on what is not true=deception intentional or not intentional. these acronyms are wrong, misleading and not of GOD's order. If its not of GOD's order than it is of man's. Man by his own hand will lead the people strait to HELL.
The common Hebrew equivalent for "judge" is "shofeṭ," a term found also in the Phenician as "sufeṭ" (= "regulator"); the latter is a name given to those who had chief control in the Sidonian colonies, and to the Hebrew "shofeṭ" was originally attached a similar significance. But alongside of the original meaning, which the Hebrew retained (see Judges, Book of), the term assumed the significance of "judge." The later Hebrew word "dayyan" (Ezra vii. 25, Aramaic portion), which has come in Talmudic and post-Talmudic times to be the word used exclusively for "judge," is found in the Bible only in reference toGOD (I Sam. xxiv. 16; Ps. lxviii. 6). "Jewish Encyclopedia" GOD is consider JUDGE of all things not a leader within a tabernacle. he is merely a man, who will die just like you and i. The LORD will never die nor sleep. Wake up people! take the words and look them up. dictionary, encyclopedia etc... these men of cloth have mislead the congregation for too too long read read read...
For someone attempting to give off such a portrayal of wisdom on referncing words you have failed to realize the meaning of the word in Biblical context. Judge does seem to refer to a leader of the people. The book of Judges is a sotry of God's people and the judges are the leaders.
My question is why some on here feel like they have to bring the members of the Church down? What Church do you belong to? Jesus said that those not against Him are for Him. In my experience as a member of the Church there has been nothing but praise and glory for Jesus. There is no reason anyone should feel threatened by the Church, and while I do not speak on behalf of the Church, we fully believe in the life and sacrifice of Jesus Christ for each one of us. What are people afraid of? The Truth? If you have questions about the Church, I would encourage you to engage in this conversation; however it seems some are only posting hateful messages badmouthing the Church. Why? For so many so-called Christians posting, there has ben quite a bit of rude comments that are out of line and mean. Enough is enough. Let's grow up and have non-hateful conversation.
To the member talking about pregnancy, I would get clarification from someone with authority. I have never heard of that rule before.
Hello. I am not a member of the HOJ but dated one for a number of years. I am not a person who is big on denominations. I believe denominations are man made. With that being said, I visited the HOJ with my ex-boyfriend's female family members b/c I was told it was a church rule that a member could not bring a person (non-member) of the opposite sex to church. I came with a very open mind and heart because it was clear that our relationship had no future if I did not join this church. As much as I wish the things that are being said were false, unfortunately, they are TRUE! I personally, spoke with the individual that created the "House Afire" website. That person was completely in their right mind. I did not have time to read all the posts so forgive me if I am redundant. People who are not familiar with the church (from the outside looking in) will think this a regular pentecostal type church. IT IS NOT! Shaming, backseating, and shunning members is absolutely true! They do believe that their leaders are the reincarnate of Jesus (i.e., Father J.I.S.= Jesus Is Seen). I am not mad/angry. I have absolutely nothing to gain or lose by sharing this information. This is me telling the "honest to God" truth. If anything, it was in my favor to believe in this church and all the teachings. I just heard and saw too much that was contrary to what I believed to join. Nevertheless, I pray members and non-members will find the truth.
P.S.
I hope the person that created the "House Afire" website is okay. I really worry about that person and her family from time to time. The last time we talked that person was being stalked and harrassed by the members of the local HOJ.
To the individual that stated the church had to prove the doctrine to Washington D.C. to become incorporated...I'm pretty sure that would violate the seperation of church and state to have the federal government make your church "prove the doctrine" in order to grant you incorpation. The last time I checked, you just filled out an application with your state. My fried that is a member used to say all the time, "Our church is in the White House". Finally, I asked him what that meant. He replied, "I don't know". He stated, "He thinks the church has a plaque in the White House". Who knows...
All I have to say is everything is BS......
the church brags about the white house how come over the last 100 years no one from the white house has become a member of the church by now. the church is a total joke..
I didn't bother reading all of the above posts, but I figured I'd chime in.
I was raised in a high position in the church, my grandfather is a bishop, and many members of my family are affluent church members; mothers pastors etc.
It's not a cult, but it can be perceived as quite close to one, however they do not pressure you to stay, which is the necessary ingredient for a church to be considered a cult.
Let me go back a step, the members of the church are, for the most part, decent hardworking people. The church is a very tight knit and helpful community, and members of your local church were like an extended family.
However, my problem with the church, and why I left, was all of the repressiveness. Girls had to wear skirts or dresses, boys had to wear suits. No sports, movies, or any real contact with people from outside the church. If anyone was seen to be rebelling, they were back-seated. I was back seated myself for humming a led zeppelin tune during the service, as music outside of the church's hymnals are an act of rebellion.
I even heard rumblings of pastors being excommunicated for allegations of sexual abuse. There were many of things that looking back are atrocious, but I didn't know any different when i was a child.
What got me was the tarrying. I was the most devout kid in the church, but after hours of trying, I didn't find myself flailing about like the rest of the people.
That moment was when I realized that I do not believe in the church's doctrines, or a singular god.
Last summer I flew to Ohio, to the farm, to attend my excommunication. I was given a chance to talk with the leaders of the church. I knew most of them, as my grandfather is on the board himself. I told them of my spiritual journey, and why I would never return to the church. We had a pleasant conversation, I shook hands with the board members, and left.
I will not tell you the church is evil, it isn't. I think it's important to recognize that any church that limits your growth is a person is not looking out for your best interests.
Also, I'd like to clarify that while the church is predominately african-american, it is not by an stretch of the imagination "black power". My family is white, and held high ranking positions in the church.
they believe that their church leader is jesus. that is enough to convince most people that their church is a cult....
Actually, they believe their leader has the Holy Spirit, "Christ," just as Jesus did. They do not believe Jesus was God, but that he was a great spiritual leader. They believe Jesus was a man endowed with Christ the Spirit, and when he died the Spirit of Christ moved into the gardener who is mentioned after his death. Then the Holy Spirit was in their founder, and moves into each new leader as the old one "gives up the ghost." Nonetheless, they do regard their leader(s) with equivalent or greater respect than they do Jesus Christ.
I grew up in this church and I would recommend that you give it serious thought before committing yourself to it. There are some very good people there, but they are seriously misguided. They put more importance on their leaders than they do God. And I never really understood who Jesus was, until I left that church. They do not teach salvation, nor do they teach about the Cross. The HOJ turned me against church, until I was 40 years old and learned the truth about our Lord.
Donna, your Pop Andrew Atkins would be disappointed to hear this from you! This church does teach salvation. Unfortunately, we arent a surface religion. You actually have to study and read into things.
donna. do not worry about what the house of jacob member has said to you in the last comment. the church uses psychological abuse to keep their members in the church. the preachers are told to preach the fear of god, to its members. i find it funny that they preach only out of the kings james version bible. but they do not go by what the bible says. such as in matthew chapter 23 and verse 9. it says word for word: call no man your father upon the earth; for one is your father, which is in heaven. read it for yourself. and we all know that we are not in heaven, hear on earth. the catholics church preaches out of several different bibles. so they can not use them as an example. but they call their leader father. they preach at their pulpit and say that they give honor to their great forefathers of israel, and members of the church. never mentioning a word about honoring the real jesus or not even honoring god at all. then they go on talking about what ever they want to talk about. i would hate to be in their shoes on their judgement day facing god. knowing that they never honor jesus or god just their leaders. i do not think donna that you have to worry about their membership increasing. i was born in the church and had to stay in it for 18 years then i got out. and never have i seen in 18 years any one join their church. i have seen some few vistors but as soon as they saw them only giving honor to their leaders and not god or jesus, they never came back.they have lost so many members that they had to come back and change the church rules that you now are aloud to play ball. so that shows you alot right there doesn't it.so are they saying that their first leader was wrong? i believe so.
i feel sorry for the church members for being so blinded by their ways.
The problem you have is that you didn't understand the teachings. If you think there is no honor to God or Jesus just think about the hundreds of songs that do just that.
Praise God For Jesus
Jesus is Good to Me
I Thank God For His Grace
God Is Good
God's Goodness
And the list goes on and on. When you talk about "the fear of God" that doesn't mean fear of leaving the Church. It means that you respect God. Proverbs says "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Do you refute that? I still think it's funny that so many people spend their time trying to tear the Church down. Why? Just because you couldn't live by it does not make it wrong/bad/harmful for others. To each his own. And by the way, we are not supposed to play sports. That was never changed. It's not because we can't associate with "the world" either. It's because we have been taught to be in Church on Sunday morning and evening and Tuesday and Friday evening. Organized sports clearly interferes with that. I have only been a member for less than five years and I have personally been there when 8 new members joined in my local Church not to mentioin the 75+ I saw join at one time. So, I find it hard to believe that you never saw one in 18 years. Stop being bitter, and move on with your life. But when you go down, uphold the Gospel. Don't try to take others with you. Even when Satan fell from the grace of God he took 1/3 of the angels with him. Don't be that kind of person.
you try to quote the bible but you will not address matthew chapter 23 verse 9. call no man on earth father. isn't that amazing. you do not want to talk about that. that is just more proof that your church is a cult. and about the songs that you sing about god is good. does not mean that you put god first. it is your leaders that all of your church services that you worship. and as you say give honor to in church. funny you do not mention the song good morning holy father, good morning holy son. when your leader walks into church services. i do not believe you at all about seeing alot of people joining the church as you have told us. i said that the church rules are changed now that you are allowed to play ball. that is true. you are now allowed to play ball with church members only. is that true? yes.. it is true. is it true that in the 70's and 80's your leaders would not allow you to play ball with church members.. yes that is true. so talk the truth. so that means that your past fathers was wrong about playing ball? must be they changed the rules.... the church tears down its self on its own. now at the end of your post you try to compare me with satan. as i said before you and the church members have to deal with god on your judgement day. i feel sorry that you have been brain washed so badly. and by the way your church newsletter you send out every month says it all. from the control center. man is that all true they have you under their control that is for sure...
WOW! That last writer is clearly a psychotic bitter person. You sound so stupid! Get a life and stop trying to ruin people's lives. I'm not even a member and I can tell that you are crazy! By the way, Catholics call their priests Father...are they a cult too? Give me a break. Leave these poor people alone.
Well I am a member and I'm proud.
Just a few points:
1. Get over the whole "we worship our Leaders" thing. WE DO NOT! We recognize all that they have done for the Church but we serve God.
2. The scripture that you so sadly continue to bring up is so far beyond your comprehension that I will not put up an explanation.
3. We do not have to explain to you. You are clearly so bitter that it's pitiful. Some here do try to explain things so people can understand, but there's no reason to feed into your hateful words.
4. The fact that you keep checking this site shows that you are still SOOOO curious about the Church. You must've googled it.
5. Why do you care what other people do so much? You seem so obsessed with tearing people down.
6. No matter what you say, I will be a proud member of the House of Jacob. Whether or not I have "annonymous's" support.
--Proud member of the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob.
most of the people in the world would find it strange to only give honor to your leaders at the pulpit and not god.
you or your leader can not explain an answer to the scripture matt 23-9.
but you say that you live by the bible. that scripture is black and white. no gray areas...people read the bible and are living their lives to try to make it to heaven when they die. if i saw you on the street i would say hello i do not hate you or any church member at all. i feel sorry for the members of your church. to be misguided.
you worship your leader birthday on july 4. as your christmas the birth of your leader. not dec 25 the birth of jesus. that is putting your leader first before god.many people talk on this website ex member and current members talk on this website.you can not even answer my question about changing the church rules about a child playing a ball in their yard was against the church rules in the past when i was a child. i find it hard to believe that you will go to hell for playing with a ball as a child. with your brothers and sisters.your church says you can not play sports with other people that are not members of your church and that you can not be a boyscott or girlscout it is against the churches rules. now how are you preparing your children for the real world when they grow up they have to work to make a living with their co workers on a job that are not members of your church. 8 hours a day 5 days a week. is that good parenting skills. no. your church preaches the only way to get into heaven is to be a member of your church. and that all people that are not a member of your church are wicked, and worldly and will go to hell. i knew even as a child that is a lie. at the age of 9 i said i do not believe that a policeman, firefighter, or doctor is wicked. i am in the middle of a tell all book about your church. lets see what the rest of the world has to say after they read my book.
That scripture you keep referring to is deeper than you can ever imagine. So get over yourself.
You are so dumb. I can not imagine what your book wil be about. Nor can I imagine someine being dumb enough to publish it. Seems the only one reading it will be you basking in your own self misery. Why? Probably because you are reaping the tares you have sewn.
You write incorrectly about the rules, holidays, belief systm, Leaders, songs, and have absolutely no ideas of our thoughts on heaven or hell. It is so hilarious that you think you are an expert. Here's a trivia for you. You said that the rules on sports were different in the 80's than today. And in such you assert that the Leaders of past were wrong or are being contradicted. Who was the leader in the 1980's and who is it today? I can't wait to read your "book." It'll be a real laugh.
What about that church members believe the leaders are essentially Jesus’ reincarnation? What about that they believe they too will be reborn in a physical body on this earth when they die? I am concerned about this because Hebrews 9:27 says, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.” The Bible makes no mention of reincarnation being real as far as I am aware, it even discusses the opposite.
you are right about their leaders believing that they are jesus. as a child i was smart enough to say lets see him walk the talk. i would like to see him walk on water,or heal a blind man back his sight. we saw nothing. just talk from their leader. and from the comments from the post-it above yours. you make the comment that i am dumb. if i was a church member still i would tell the bishop on you. as we heard a million times as a child. over and over i will tell the bishop on you. they was trying to scare a child. you talk about me having good luck on me getting my book publish. that will not be a problem there are plenty of books out there that their leader believed he is jesus. such as books about charle manson, jimmy jones. the only thing that is different in your church is they did not kill anyone physical. but mentally they have. you will only talk about things that you want to talk about. like the scripture matt 23:9. you have no answer because you can not come up with one, because the scripture is black and white.i have researched alot about your leaders past and it will be mention in my book. i know more about the church than you do and i am proud to say i am not a member. and the answer to your question to me about playing ball in the 80's is simple. your father w.b. israel s.o.t. or other wise called father scott. died on december 12, 1978. he was the third straight leader in a row that we lived by their church rules not to play ball with you brothers and sisters. then jake daniels took over as your next father and he changed the rules that you now are aloud to play ball with your brothers and sister. so i could say that the other 3 fathers was wrong? they made jake daniels their father because he was so young in 1978 because the church needed a leader that would be around for some time. and he likes to exercise alot so he will be around for a while. i said the other day that if i was to walk past you i would say hello. because i am a true christian. and all you can do is call me dumb. how childish. my book is about how a church can have a leader that believes he is jesus. such as in your church by laws say. the first fathers words was. that people will come and huddle at my feet. now that is funny. and it is about a church that uses mental abuse to keep their member in line. and a very control with every move that a member makes. i will and i am going totally public with this. and once again i will bet your will not answer all of my questions and comments again.
We have no need to respond to your ridiculous and fabricated stories. I will reitterate as one did a few posts ago: you are wrong about virtually everything you have written (our beliefs, rules, even names). We all anxiously anticipate your book. By the way, what will the name of the author read? Who is this "expert"?
you can not respond to my comments and questions because you and anyone with any common sense knows what i said is the truth. and that is why you will not answer my questions because they are true. lets see what the 99.9 percent americans opinion on your beliefs have to say about your church after they read my book. i would bet that they will agree with me, and all of the other ex church members. the truth will set you free. as the truth has set me free from your cult. go to your local book store here soon and you can read my name off of the books cover. as i have said before i know more about the church than you do. everyone will recognize my name and who i am...
If 99.9% of Americans think negatively about my Church does that mean that it is wrong? Absolutely not. When so many people thought Jesus was wrong and speaking crazy things, he was killed. I guess you wouldn't call the Church he led a cult? No! He stood up for his beliefs, just as we all must do now. Enough arguing. You write your book. We will serve our God and you are free to serve what ever it is that you wish to serve. You can write the book, as it will not offend me. As you have said, the truth shall set you free. I know the truth and that is good enough for me. I love the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob with my whole heart and nothing less. No matter who writes anything about it. Please post a comment when your book is written. I'm sure everyone will be interested to read it. God bless the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob and God bless you that he might have mercy with us all. But I would ask that you respect us. You do not have to agree, but regardless of our religion, we are human beings. There is no need to do name calling and speaking low of us as people. We are proud of who we are, and that should not harm anyone else as far as I can tell. Everyone should speak with dignity and respect as we have been taught. Enough is enough.
I am not a member but I did have a kid and was married to a member tht was excommunicated. But from my experiences w their outtings it was always strong, and the stories of pedophiles, murder, adultery and rape. Made me believe these folks were not a cult but gangstas. But in reading this individual as a good point, people cannot explain or provide references for the things they do or say 1005 of the time their guidance is not heaven sent. Meaning it was not of the teaches of Jesus etc... For the individuals tht have attended this church for centuries explain why is there a combination of jewish and islamic forms of dress. Yet you do not practice like the JEW OR MOSLEUM. Nor do you practice like Jesus, he did not jump, shout, scream and have band with him as he relayed his message. Like the individual before said, we all will be thankful not to believe as you do on the day of judgement. For every following there should be a point of reference Jesus never spoke of a bible, speaking in touch and the Children of Israel were identified as the JEWS. And you people follow none of their practices let alone speak HEBREW OR ARAMIC. LANGUAGE spoken by Jesus, so how do you know what you are reading following practing if you do not know the original text? So have no road map to life, that is basically the blind leading the blind..Its all a religion based on emotions minus facts. Because the fact is Jesus would not have u calling him GOD or calling yourself judge of god and the other many silly acroynoms behind the deacon, pastor's name. You people should wake up..this tradition you are following has no legit references or points of truth. Do your research and have dialogue with others and you will see your following a blind, brainwashed path. Oh yea, the reason for our divorce is tht an Akron bishop, preacher whoever claimed she or I could use our body to carry or help carry a members child and this would not go against any order. Mind you we were married. But nontheless, he a fool and evidently fools dont fall to far from the tree bc she is now carrying for a member of the tabernacle in conshocton. That's brainwashed cult activity. The judge thought so as well and granted me custody of my child. So people read research and try to study a true message and not a HAPPY DANCE GUIDANCE. FOR there has to be a point of reference.
I was a member there for 20 years and I can tell you for a fact that its a cult. They pull you in with the family, all as one vibe then the doctrine leads you away from christ and into a relationship with god based on the church. Its not worth going back, it will be way too hard to get out once you get in
i would like to shake you hand and say praise the lord to that.
it was easy for me to quit the church any one with common sense knows that it is a joke to stand up in church and give only honor to their church leaders, and not to jesus or god first. their first leader must of had one large ego. and anyone can read st luke about jesus reigns over the house of jacob. and then come up with i will name my church that and everyone will believe it is the same church that the bible mentions. not to bright... once again common sense has to kick in some time.
i have posted a comment last week and you left it up for only 3 days and you deleted it. so just remember that the truth will set you free.
To whomever is writing the book, I was a member, born in the church and raised in it for many years. I can validate all that you say and more. Please feel free to contact me if you every come back to this site. Chellejones28@gmail.com
And I am no longer a memeber, it has been the best thing that ever happened to me. Its true, when you know the truth, it sets you free and I can say I have truly been set free since leaving this church. Please contact me. See above.
I AM STILL A MEMEBER OF THIS GREAT CHURCH AN WOULD LIKE TO ASK.IF ITS SO BAD WHY IS THE ONES THAT HAVE LEFT THE CHURCH.ON THIS SITE WHY ARE YOU STILL WONDERING WHATS GOIN ON IN THE HOJ? IF IT SO WRONG.
BECAUSE THIS IS A OPEN DISCUSSION WEBSITE. REMEMBER THE HOUSE OF JACOB DOES NOT HAVE ITS OWN WEBSITE. THIS IS NOT THE CHURCHS WEBSITE AT ALL. WE DO NOT HAVE TO WONDER WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE CHURCH I AM SURE IT IS THE SAME OLD OUT OF DATE STUFF. SUCH AS HONORING THEIR FOREFATHERS, AND NOT GOD FIRST. WE ALL HAVE TO FACE JUDGEMENT DAY, AND I WOULD HATE TO BE IN YOUR SHOES WHEN GOD ASKS YOU WHY DID YOU HONOR YOUR LEADERS BEFORE ME. GOOD LUCK...
I find this conversation very interesting everyone has different views of the HOJ. I myself was born into the church my family relations with the church stretch back as far as my parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents who love this church dearly. I was excommunicated for having a child out of wed lock and was made to sit on the back seat of the church and wasn't allowed to talk to anyone after service, which was very uncomfortable at a time when I needed the church the most. But just like any organization there are good and bad points. I love the HOJ when I was attending the church I was fed spiritualy and I enjoyed it very much. Now that im older and have children of my own I agree with a lot of the rules of the church. One day soon I will become a member again after being gone over 16 years. Leave the other person whom yall lable as "angry" alone everyone is intitled to there own opinion to God be the glory.
There are good people in the church. The majority of my family are still member's. I was a fourth generation member. My great grand parents on both sides joined under the founder. I am no longer a member because it was very hard to sit in church and watch my molester preach. This man molested me from the age of eight to sixteen and was still preaching in the church. I was told i had to forgive him and was forbiden to go to the police by the board of directors.
In closing I have not seen a lot of my family members in over twenty years, but my step father the molester is free to enjoy my family and still preach in the church. I do not have in hatred in my heart, I left him in God's hands.
Wow, I have heard similar stories of abuse and how the church is good at manipulating people into not saying a word or making official reports. Its a shame. If the House of Jacob is so great, why dont they do world wide evangelisim? If the House of Jacob is the ONLY way, why arent they doing more help save people who are dying in this world? For such a wonderful church, they are so undercover that you only know of them if you were a memeber or knew someone who was a memeber. Thats what I dont understand. How come the House of Jacob doesnt fellowship with other believers? If we all believe and serve the same God, isnt he Lord over all? Can all the christians of the world be wrong if they are not a member of the church? Its awfully selfish of a people who claim to have the answers for the worlds woes to keep it to themselves dont you think?
I keep reading where every says there are "good people" who go to HOJ. And, I have to agree, there are good people who go there. But being a good person doesnt get you into heaven no more than being a member of HOJ does. If they really took the time to read the Word of God insteand of accepting all the sermons and scriptures that are already prepared and spoon fed to them, they would understand that Romans 10:9-10 is the ONLY way to be saved. Not hononring the forefathers. Im still looking for that scripture. For heavens sake, they think their leader is Jesus himself reincarnated for the fourth time! One for every father thats been over the church! And thats not bible at all! The word says that Jesus sits on the right hand of the Father(God)not JD Isreal J.O.G (which means Judge of God, explain THAT one) and that he makes intercession on our behalf to the Father. You know the universal symbol of a cult is a leader who exalts himself above everyone else to the degree that the people believe he is the only way. David Koresh anybody? or How about Jim Jones? Extreme examples but the loyalty is just the same. They would give their childern over if the leadership asked them to. Have of the kids already have the same middle name of Isreal because of their wanting to name the children instead of parent or did you think that was a coincidence too. To the one who is going back, the last state is worse than the first. Why would you want to be entangled in the yoke of bondage again? Because they have made you believe that without HOJ your life will be a mess. Thats the biggest and most effective lie to date!
I will bad for the people that have been molested and went unheard. I married someone that attended and secretly attends now. But I will never allow my kids to attend. This is some very very disturbing stuff, slavery, abuse of authority and incess all wrapped up in this HOj place. You people need to wake up, those that hid and protected their child's abuser same on you for having such a slave mentality. With all your degrees you still cant decifer right from wrong. Go has led you astray and u will be required to ask your forefathers for help and they will be in fire with you. little do you know, they cannot and will not safe you. They are tyrannts and you dress up in your big hats and suits and prance around with this fake persona and here it is you allowed someone to still your child's innocence. Are you people "MAD". This social group is nothing less than a CULT of ignorant, slave mentality carrying individuals. Want to be so important but lack self-respect, integrity and understanding of religion. Its all an illusion. From Ohio to DC, a bunch of idiots. Young and old, but you old ones will pay dearly for manipulating the youth. I SO SO disgusted with my own situaution due to this brainwashing of this cult and the fact her own people elected not to persue the molester. They should rid coscohton of their farm to cause harm and abuse the minds of the youth. A farm of inbreeds. I so horrified, by reading and hearing first hand these events. But I say the big fool is the one who runs back and protects this group of folks. J.O.G you should castrate yourself for evening attempting to callyourself such. The akron bishop your no different as well. Just plain ole hipocrites. You not like Jesus or is creator. You people are a bunch of wakos that have been misled and enjoy it. I ask that light be spread on these people, so they may come out of darkness but only if you will dear lord. only if you will.
Let me just say, the Church isnot a specific denomination, whether AME, Pentacost, Church of God,or the HOJ. The church is the body of Jesus, who is God. He came in the flesh. 1 John 4:2 This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: if a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. The bible states the church is the Body of Christ. It's the Body of Believers. The bible states that never has there been anything like the church, nor shall it ever be again. When Jesus comes back for His Church, He is not coming for any denomination, nor any building.. God says, I reside in bldgs not built by hands. Jesus will come for his body, His Church, His bride.....for those that live according to His principles. He will come for those who do things to please Him. He is God. He is the Son of the Most High God,. He is ominopent, and omnipresent. Don't get hung up on where you worship ----get hung up on who you worship ----and do those things that please Him. For He is a wonderful God. The Supreme Council of The House of Jacob, I am not a member of. I went to school, and lived in the same community as some of there members. My Dad was best friends with some of their members. The headquarters is in Coshocton, Ohio, where I live and have lived for over fifty years. In everything there are good and bad people. Many of them are nice and friendly people. I've known them all of my life, and quite frankly I enjoy them. For the young man, who has joined the Church, I say this to you....don't let anyone tell you about your Lord and Savior, Jesus. Get to know Him for yourself. Read the new Testament. Let me say the old testament is for examples. The new covenant or Testament is for showing us how we are to live our lives daily. How we are to show love to all people, regardless of where they worship. God will sort it out. We do not know everything. But as we spend time with the Father, we spend time with His Son, we spend time with the Holy Spirit, who has been sent to teach us and show us how to live, we will please Him. Do good to all people. Love them, that is our mandate, not observing holidays, etc, or the clothes we wear or do not wear. We get caught in the small things. Satan wants us distracted....and divided...because then we can't get the job done that God wants us to do. He created us for fellowship. Fellowship with Him and fellowship with others. We are to go and disciple others for living in the Kingdom of God. His rule, His authority, His righteousness.
I have only been to the Farm, less than on five occasions. They have always treated me, kindly. I have a woman who lives under my roof, and helps me take care of my dad, who is elderly. She is a member of the HOJ. I used to be her assistant pastor, but she left my denomination and went back to the HOJ. I could be bitter, but that is not godly. So I am not bitter. I am loving. She is a sweetheart, and sincere. She has not put up a picture of the Father in my home. She keeps to herself. The Lord once said that she is my sister. Regardless, of the denomination....she is my sister in the faith. If you read the bible and follow, you will notice God is big on family. If the HoJ is in Chritst, then they are our family....and we must receive them as such.
Shalom/blessings and wholeness to all.
the church people are nice. but inside the church they are very strict. you are not suppose to hang out with worldly people. and the biggest fault that they have is their father. the ten commandments says do not honor a false god. and they are. their father.....
ms rudolph, you are about as crazy as the rest of them.Jesus was not GOD in the flesh. The creator does not have to become his creation to understand or forgive. In addition, to that why does does pray all throughout the bible if he is GOD. Who is he praying to? Please these folktales have been past down for centuries it is time for people to "READ" for understanding and not be cohersed into believing this nonsense. Remember we are all people with faults but when you worship man opposed to GOD then u asking for problems and when you mislead the people on false docturines u are asking for major problems. NO WHERE in the bible i own or others i have read does JESUS SAY IAM GOD FOLLOW ME. I READ WHERE HE STATES HE DOES NOT COME WITH A NEW MESSAGE BUT TO REINFORCE THE LAWS BEFORE HIM. MOSAIC CODE-10 COMMANDMENTS. 1ST COMMANDMENT BELIEVE IN ONE GOD AND DO NOT ASSOCIATE PARTNERS WITH HIM. People there is too much education out here for you to continue this nonsense by these half jack preachers and deacons alike. shame on you and you call yourself wise and educated. You people are using scriptures to mislead and misguide people and also to hold yourself higher than others when you or the worst of the worst of them. self righteous and sophisticate nonsense. READ
My Grandparents and my father was a member of SCHOJ. My grandfather was a SCHOJ pastor. First and foremost Dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon't go back. Don't look at them people they are crazy, they want you to join that horrible cult. I mean they are seriously crazy be prepared to work your whole life and give all you have to the church. Not celebrate any holidays even birthdays only their horrible holidays like Holy Israel day which is a mess in its self, its in July if I remember. You Can't marry out of the congregation if you do you are ex communicated if they don't join the church. If you decide to visit the church after ex communicated be prepared not to be allowed to sing any songs but your wife who is not a member can sing all she wants. that church is horrible....
Any church that refers to itself as "THE ONE TRUE CHURCH" is a cult.
Any church who cuts off people for marrying outside of their church congregation is a cult.
Any church that conditions it's members to be so needy and codependent that they describe their time away from the church as being the darkest years of their life is a cult.
I love the church that I go to. However, I know that if I were to choose to leave and join another church, I would not be shunned or rejected by all of the people at my current church. Nor do we excommunicate people for marrying someone who goes to a different church. Nor do people who leave the church experience despair and darkness for being away from it. A church should be a place where you go to experience and carry out your faith, not the be all and end all of that faith. Any church that says otherwise is just scary.
hi, everybody I just sumbled upon this websitetoday & read all of these postings. just let me say that I myself , I have been doing a pentcostal studying for over 10 years ,which I call church throughout the country and ask them questions about there congregations & history. in this church is no different than a lot of small church/small church organizations, that I had come across. where s/one starts group, and everybody has to listen to them to everything they say. And even the pentcostal group I belong is like, which I have made disagreements to the pastor [not on holiness issues as of a christian, but man made by-laws] there are 100's if not 1000's of these little groups ,thats why they never grow to be large in size. They think they are the only ones going to HEAVEN, IN SOME OF CHURCHES WITH THIS BELIEF ONLY HAVE 20-70 PEOPLE IN THEM. [wow!, ONLY 20 PEOPLE GOING TO HEAVEN ] I do disagree , with the the way churches that take a pastor ,and promote him to more than then what even GOD allowed him to be promoted to. I Im myself [apostolic] and we have this problem greatly ourselves. and nothing is going to change, with these small little groups. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND SERVE GOD, AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST [thru his word] God Bless
I have known members of this church for about 8 years and recently have joined myself. Honestly in the beginning I was a little worried about what kind of church my at the time boyfriend grew up in. I did not understand a lot of the ways, theories and teachings. But I learned, threw going where, I was always welcomed and visitors are welcomed and acknowledged. I asked questions and they were gladly answered. I've read info that church memebers have given me and I LOVE MY CHURCH !! Nothing about it is cult like. No we do not worship Father. No I dont give all my money to the church. No we do not down other religions, nor do we shun them. Yes we do love Jesus and he is very much apart of my life. Never has my well being or that of my children been threatened. Yes there are rules to everything and consequences if you break those rules. I am not sure why so many people are angry and take pride in spreading hate and lies. I will pray for you all that GOD may give you whatever you are in need of and searching for.. . . .
AS far as people being raped and molested unfortunately that happens to people all over the world in many diffrent religions, races and cultures. Are the catholics a cult because they are damn good at transferring priest instead of going to the police. I pray that whomever feels so negatively about this great faith find what clarity they are desperately in need of.
I have known members of this church for about 8 years and recently have joined myself. Honestly in the beginning I was a little worried about what kind of church my at the time boyfriend grew up in. I did not understand a lot of the ways, theories and teachings. But I learned, threw going where, I was always welcomed and visitors are welcomed and acknowledged. I asked questions and they were gladly answered. I've read info that church memebers have given me and I LOVE MY CHURCH !! Nothing about it is cult like. No we do not worship Father. No I dont give all my money to the church. No we do not down other religions, nor do we shun them. Yes we do love Jesus and he is very much apart of my life. Never has my well being or that of my children been threatened. Yes there are rules to everything and consequences if you break those rules. I am not sure why so many people are angry and take pride in spreading hate and lies. I will pray for you all that GOD may give you whatever you are in need of and searching for.. . . .
AS far as people being raped and molested unfortunately that happens to people all over the world in many diffrent religions, races and cultures. Are the catholics a cult because they are damn good at transferring priest instead of going to the police. I pray that whomever feels so negatively about this great faith find what clarity they are desperately in need of.
comments about the above comments. your words. no we do not worship father. that is a 100 percent not the truth. your fathers day? not jesus day. when your father comes into the church services the church band is required to start up the song. good morning holy father good morning holy son. thats not worshiping your father? how about ever member going up to the pulput and starts to speak what is their first words. i first give honor to our father and members of the church. now come on any person on earth even a kindergardener would know that you only worship your fake father. get real with it..
I have a person from yur church, who is staying with me....and I asked her, (because I had heard) if they believed in reincarnation.
She told me some do, and some don't. i HAD heard that if someone dies, and that person had lived a good life, they would come back into another person's body, or something. She told me that was the belief, and I told her that in itself is a spirit of error. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord
Oh but it is 100% truth. A kindergardener can also complete the line which is Good Morning Holy Spirit the time for Service has come. If you beleive in a trinity what about that worships one person. And come on any person on earth can see that you are rather bitter and angry. I will continue to walk in this faith and pray for you as I go along.
it is funny that you can not knowledge the part of the song good morning holy father, and good morning holy son. you will not talk about the whole picture will you. or also about the part of my comment about everyone in your church only giving honor at the churches pulpit to your false leader first before god,at the pulpit. yes i am angry and bitter by this so called church that at one point and time when i was young i was forced into saying the same things that you all say at the pulpit too. i am upset that so many people in that church are honoring a false god as the bible mentions in the 10 commandments not to honor a false god. and when i pray at night i pray to god, not your false father. maybe you could save a pray by calling him on the phone first. how silly is that placed called as a church.
RANDOM COMMENT! Lol E
HAHAHAHAHA you know I'd find that, A
Wow is all I say!!!
I grew up with in a neighborhood which had several families who were members of the SCHOJ. I knew nothing about this religion. Their kids were my friends in school and they were all in the school band. It wasn't until one of their mothers passed away and I attended a funeral that I was introduced to SCHOJ. First of all, it was very strange and almost ungodly the way they paid so much respect by giving honor to every church founder and leader - before they mentioned God. I know they they see anything wrong with them - but if you were raised in another religion this would stand out like a sore thumb. Then they read a letter from one of the church leaders - You would have thought the letter was from God himself. I heard J.O.G. being mentioned over and over again. They mentioned reincarnation also. Jesus definitely seemed not to be hold in as much Reverence as I am used to. After reading and studying the SCHOJ - they are very similar to the Jehovah Witnesses. One last comment - they believe that you should only marry within the religion because if you do not the "outsider" will take you away from your faith. I believe it is just the opposite - the religions kicks you out of the faith. If they were more tolerate - they might would pull in more people that could be converted.
I was born in this church and a member for over 30 years it's not a cult I was there by choice they are old fashion and somewhat strick but not a cult. The full name of the church is The Supreme Council of the House of Jacob of the United States Of America, Incorporated. Pretty sure they wouldn't go through all that trouble for a cult. And its been around since 1910. All of their song books and other literature are in the library of congress in DC. It's a choice to go or not to go its not for everybody. So try it if you want if you don't like it don't go back. I still go every once on a while still friends with hundreds of people that are still members and some who aren't. It's not that serious find a church or religion that you like and enjoy it but don't waste your time talking about one you don't like. Land of the free, there are far more important things in this country to argue about than where people go to church. Think about it.
does anyone know if the book is out yet? if so, how can i purchase it.
I too would like to know if the book has been released yet.
I think it is interesting that someone said that a former member with mental problems created the Trancenet Site, House Afire. lol I know for a fact that a man who specializes in cults and has a Masters degree in Social work owns the Trance Net site. I also know that there are several personal testimonials on that site. Of course the SCHOJ is a cult! What other group of people would say that everyone who leaves and says disparaging things abt their group is a person with mental problems? Think, Sheeple!! lol
Just wanted to give some inside perspective: I am a member of the SCHOJ and have been a member my whole life. This is not to say that I have blindly followed the commands of those above me. In my youth I studied religion and often went to the churches of many of my friends (Christian, Catholic, Jewish, and even once with a Muslim). I refuse to bash anyone because that is not what I believe, nor is what I have been taught, but perspective is an all important necessity in any situation.
The SCHOJ is a tax paying, religious organization, which is legally incorporated by the the United States government, and upholds all regulations therein. The members within are all entitled to their own interpretation of the information available to them during service, and are encouraged to enact their own free will at all times. So for this reason, it is not a cult. The church uses the bible as a structural reference as well as a spiritual reference. The Leader (the Supreme Bishop) does not proclaim, nor ask, demand, or want to be worshiped as God. I have heard him say this and I do not worship him, nor do I worship Jesus, nor any man for that matter. I worship God, and that is the basis of what the SCHOJ teaches (just as Jesus taught, just as the Pope teaches, just as pastors from all denominations teach, and yes, just as the Supreme Bishop of the SCHOJ teaches.
Some of these "horror stories" may have some truth to them, but no organization is perfect. There will always be outliers to the average experience within any religious body. The church is very old fashioned, but times are changing very rapidly and most religious bodies hold on to what has worked for them, in this case it has worked for the SCHOJ for more than a hundred years, in the past.
Referencing the marriage posts (and I read a few down through the conversation), I married outside of the church. My wife was not a member, and at the start of our relationship, demanded she would never join. This was in part because she had read the awful things on the decade old website many have previously spoken of. But, like all things, the real truth is much more complex than any single vexed story or a biased individual complaint can reveal. Through the years she has seen the man I have become, and has seen the religious constant that drives my character and regard. She and I are now happily married and she willingly joined the church. She has her own understanding, and so do I. Do we agree on everything? No, of course not. But, we each get out of the service what we need, and what is revealed to us based on our own understanding can only better us as spiritual individuals. So no the church does not kick you out for marrying outside (at least not now). Excommunications, back seating, and shunning is extremely rare and is not a knee jerk response to a singularly occurring issue (because as I said, the world may be rapidly changing, but the church is trying to change with it, and as with many religious bodies, some discipline may be required to keep some from straying into trouble).
I am not a perfect person, nor do I claim to be. I have my share of faults and have done my share of misbehaving (not just in the light of the Lord or the church, but my parents, and society), but I will tell you that, had I not had the spiritual family the SCHOJ has provided me through all of my experiences, I would not be the man I am today.
How does one define self? Am I a college graduate, a married man to a beautiful wife, a friend to those in need, a leader, a follower? Yes, but I am also spiritual, reflective, inquisitive, loving, mindful, and through it all I am still learning and growing each and every day. So I ask that each person make his or her own personal decisions about whatever religion he or she may be seeking. The right truth will reveal itself to you if you seek it. The SCHOJ encourages religious exploration and seeking understanding (of course they would prefer you ask your pastor first) inside and outside, but if you want an outside perspective go seek it out on your own. Do not blindly follow those who lead you about with angst and misgivings about something they may not themselves understand.
But just remember, the SCHOJ will always welcome visitors with open arms, warm conversation, good music, good food, and as always the truth as it is given to us by God.
The responses from HOJ members smell like the propaganda I was told to expect from false teachers in the Bible. KJV not a "worldly" version. I expect that the verse warning us to call no man father was to complicated. Put down the official song book and Read the KJV. I beg you for the sake of your eternal soul.
Everyone tries to use that scripture as if it holds any weight.. Do you even know what that means?
Matthew 23:9 means call no man God! People constantly attempt to use scriptures to bash religious organizations, not realizing the full context of the scriptures they reference. To conclusively deem an organization a cult without fully understanding it's beliefs is completely asinine. Understand first what the scriptures mean before you attempt to use them as a defense, because when you don't you're hanging yourself with your own tongue
I am a member of the HOJ, when did they stop excommunicating for marrying outside of the church? When did they stop putting members on the backseat? And why is it that when an x-member speak their mind it is said "they have a mental illness" do you truely know that for a fact?
Did you get put on the backseat for marrying outside of the church?
You are so right, I have heard that statement made about people that leave and speak their mind about the hoj ( mental illness) to use that statement toward someone is wrong.
To the one who said they are a member of the HOJ, I don't certainly don't believe you. If you were a member, you would know the TRUTH of what goes on? That doesn't really make sense. That being said, I don't think you have mental problems lol.
The comments about people having mental problems was 1) disrespectful, but 2) taken out of context. From reading these posts, I see nowhere where anyone said that ALL former members with negative opinions of the HOJ have mental problems. I see one comment- not referencing the man that created TransNet, but the one that created the false reports of the HOJ to that site giving that information. Clearly no one in the HOJ knows the Knapp man that made TransNet.
That being said, I am very confused by the posts on this blog. It is clear to me that there are "haters" of the HOJ who are bitter towards the Church for an assortment of reasons. What I can not understand is WHY they feel the need to continue to say hurtful and derogatory comments about the HOJ. If you left the Church, then move on. There's no doctrine to any religion (or for that matter any moral code) that would condone you belittling and antagonizing people for their beliefs. That's the great thing about the United States. YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORSHIP AS OTHERS DO.
Seems easy to me: if you don't want to be a part of the House of Jacob, then don't. But the fact that you feel the need to call it a cult or whatever other hurtful and demeaning things you say, is not only irresponsible, but immature. I am sure that ALL of the former members still know and love people in the HOJ that they respect and KNOW to be GOOD PEOPLE.
As for the members of the House of Jacob that post on this site: Do not stoop to a level unbecoming of a Godly person. Say things you know to be true ONLY. We do not owe any man a defense to our religion. But, we do owe the duty of peace. Hebrews 12:14.
It is possible for members of the HOJ and nonmembers to have a respectful dialogue about the House of Jacob, but it does everyone a disservice for anyone to aimlessly name-call and hurt people for their beliefs. That's what the Egyptians did to the Hebrews in Biblical times. It's what happened when colonials came to the "New Land." That is why the US has become an oasis for religious freedom. We don't all have to believe the same way and that is ALRIGHT! Just because people believe differently does not mean that they are stupid, bad people, mean, etc. True members of the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob are taught to be good and decent people. So anyone not acting in accordance with principles of peace, love, unity, joy, and mercy are NOT acting in accordance with the Gospel and Doctrine of the Supreme Council of the House of Jacob.
First of all I was being sarcastic,
Amen!
I would like to know why do all of the members of the HOJ, post anonymous comments?
Well, why do nearly all non-members also post anonymous comments?
Is the book in the stores yet? Would like to read it.
I live in Coshocton County and know very little about this religion. I'm in healthcare and take care of several members. I feel very ignorant to this topic and only want to learn more for the sake of my residents and their beliefs. Any ideas where to start my educational journey?
I am simply on this website to learn and not bash any religion. To the writer saying he's writing a book, I hope you have a great editor. You can't spell.
Unfortunately the only way to really learn about this organization is to link up with a member and attend a few services before you can ask in depth questions that they may or may not know how to answer. Or you could try to get a hold of their church literature but good luck with that. You can only get it from another member as they do not distribute the literature to the public and it has to be ordered and paid for.
Also, in case you were wondering, have you noticed that there no website dedicated to this church organization except the one done on tracenet, and that was more of an expose'. It seems that as great as this organization and its members believe it is, they have yet to step into the 21st century. This site right here, this blog started over 5 years ago is the only connection online to HOJ. That's why the members defend it so much. Yet they have no place you can go to learn about their church, their beliefs or what they stand for. You can only go by what they tell you. Why is that?
I grew up in this church and when I was younger I defended it. I could never be a member there again. As they say to each his own. My mother still goes there and I really think they believe only they will make it to heaven. I know that it doesn't matter what church I go to...God loves me,excepts me.....just the way I am. I give Honor to God and the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ......NOT TO A MAN...THAT THEY CALL FATHER......THEY TREAT HIM LIKE THE POPE. I too was putt on the back seat for getting pregnant out of wedlock. You go before the board and they ask you all these personal questions. They decide how long you sit on the back seat. They reduce your ranks. They are judge and jury. I've heard that some of the older bishops that have probably passed on like bishop Yonker was a touchy felt man if you know what I mean..and Father of the church who had children by two women...Years ago they lived at HIS PLACE!!! The Wrights and the Johnsons are really related. Its a real hush hush thing. Elder Cann a pastor used to hit his wife. I know God can change you and that's probably what happened, but because of his behavior is probably why his son Patrick hit his women. You can't Marry out of the church...you have to get then to join. Even the leader now has skeletons in his closet. WHAT HAPPENS IN THE JOHN.STAYS IN THE HOJ. THAT'S HOW IT WAS BACK IN THE DAY.
Anonymous, I grew up in the city of Coshocton, and I had forgotton about all the people you had mentioned....though I did not got to the HOJ. As a matter of fact, during the meetings my mother would not even allow me to go out there with my friends.....she said, You just want to see those boys...and they won't marry you, cause you don't belong. I grew up and went to school with people from th HOJ. I've enjoyed my relationships with them. You know, what I have heard has happened to people who belong there, happens to some degree or another in other churchs, when people are in to religion, and operate under the Law or the 10 commandments. Jesus paid the penalty for us...He took all God's wrath on himself. Read in Hebrews 8, and 10. God says that He is merciful to our unrighteousness....He will remember our sins no more. Those people were under the law.....they have not accepted what Jesus has done for them. He set them free. To put you on the back bench is punishment. There is no more punishment for the people of God. Jesus took that punishment. God loves them. Pray for them. If you are baptized in the Holy Spirit with evidence of praying in tongues....pray in tongues, cause then you are praying God's perfect will for them. What they are in is bondage....just like the world. Love them and pray for them.
Amen, finally someone is speaking the truth.
To the ex-member that posted about the families that are related, yes that statement is true. But you will find some of the same hidden secrets in other church organizations as well. Unfortunately some ministers abuse the title and authority. However I do believe there are some good people in the HOJ, who truly do have good hearts, there are some ministers who truly do care about the members well being.
Praise the Lord,
My name is Jesse Carr and I've been a member of this body since birth. I wont get into a debate of wether what we preach is wrong or right, however I will incourage all of you to come and see for yourself. Come with an open mind and decide for yourself what we're about. The adress to my mission is, 1618 Baker Ave. Warren, OH 44485.
do you worship Jesus or your fake father
We should be praising the heavenly father, not man or titles.
You are right! We should be praising the heavenly father, and not man or titles! Come and see for yourself who is praised in HOJ services! The mystery will be revealed....lol
This is ridiculous...All these people on here HATING on a Church and its people all because they aren't part anymore! If you left, then that's your choice. Why you wanna keep on rehashing it and arguing with people? You have left, we will stay. If you are happy with your choice, God bless you. But continuing to check this site to see what other LIES you can spread is out of control immature. For goodness sake...you praise God your way and we will do ours. Even if you think we are wrong, do you really think posting on here is gonna change my mind??? You don't even know me! lol It only makes you look bitter and childish. The Christian way is not to spread hate, but love. So even if you hate the way we do...love the people and have a little respect....if not for the HOJ, for human beings who are associated.
Anyone genuinely on here to learn more about the Church, online is NOT the way. There is so little truth to MOST of the info you find on this site and others that it is a disservice to assume that you are gaining any viable information. Just go to a Church close to you. If nothing else, you're gonna find good people, good music, and a good time. If that's all you see, fine. If you don't agree with the doctrine, fine. But for crying out loud, don't trust a former member's childish attempts to trash the HOJ.
Love be to ALL of you. I pray for peace, also.
I love Jesus and God not father Daniels
BAHAHAAHA that ain't even His name!! Ya'll are too funny! Think you know it all and don't have nothin!!! HAHA
JOG . judge of god .I think he has that backwards . God will judge him.
Again, you speak of things you know NOTHING about...the Judges were leading the people back in the day...same goes with our Bishop...He leads the people...he ain't judging God. He's a Judge (Leader) OF God (He's a godly man living the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST). Still the same Gospel Jesus was preaching...nothing new under the sun my man... Just another misunderstanding by people who don't know the Truth. When things like that get spread around, you can understand why the HOJ is made to look like something it is NOT. Good try tho...hahaa
you give all your honor to your church leader before Jesus or God and that is said at the church pulpit. Sad. and I love how he always says let that be the law l in Israel..the last I checked we were in the United States
Is Mtr.Ruth Hubbard related to the wrights? I know Mtr.lavan is her mother, which wright is her dad? JIS or his son.
Farher Jake Daniel Collins JOG
No thanks
Why are you on this site? If the HOJ is the true Church than why do you feel the need to worry about what others say. Shouldn't you be garthing souls?
Looking at both sides. First notice that everyone has posted anonymously - that speaks to fear and/or secrecy regarding this matter, or someone may want to protect family members. I have never seen a thread with so many anonymous posts!
I myself am anonymous here because of the same reason--maintaining secrecy and protecting family members, and yes, even a fear of upsetting the leader and other members.
Still, it is obvious that this is not good. Living a life in secret so to speak, and being fearful of showing one's face and standing up for what one believes is not good.
My other comment is about the stupidity of the line: "They make up their own holidays." So what? All holidays are made up. Again, all holidays are made up. So that is not a legitimate argument.
This church did not fulfill me, but perhaps there are some who find it fulfilling. I think it is a shame though that so many people remain there out of fear.
In my life, fear and love cannot occupy the same space, and I chose LOVE. And my God appreciates that I have chosen to connect via Love not fear.
HOJ members...why don't you all stop replying to these post and trying to explain scriptures and bylaws. If someone wants to really learn about the church they will visit. As far as the angry upset members; what bothers them is pain/sorrow/bitterness down in their hearts. They are the owners of those feelings which they seem to want to hold on to and grow by using this site to put down the HOJ./ Maybe they will learn one day that when you walk away from something continue to follow your path and let go. The HOJ is not trying to recruit you back instead we wish you well in life and all your endeavors. If you are gone then please go in peace. Church members there is
nothing you can say to change their
opinions. How about stop responding to this endless conversation and focus your time and thoughts on things from above. There is much work to be done in God's Kindom and participating on this site does not qualify. So I too will allow this to be my only post and as I go I pray for God's Blessings for everyone in the world. Peace
****Kingdom
I would like to say that I was a very loyal member of this church when I was younger. I joined when I was 6 and participated with my whole heart until I was about 17. I realized though that I was only doing this to please others as I am a people pleasing type of person. I was a hypocrite. I would act holy and saved in front of fellow church members and total opposite when out amongst the "world." I was placed on the back seat for committing fornication with another member. Later on I was excommunicated for marrying my ex husband. I was reinstated before I gave birth to my son and my ex husband joined the church as well. Times were very tough. My ex husband was abusive to me, mentally and physically. My ex husband would not keep a job nor would he allow me to leave the house to get a job or continue my education. We got letters in the mail from the church stating our standings with the tithes we weren't paying. We did not have money to pay them. I finally got enough courage to leave my ex husband the first time. I went to my pastor who was also my uncle and talked to him about this. He encouraged me to stay with my abusive husband! I could not believe that any GOD, leader, pastor or anyone for that matter would encourage someone to stay with their children in an abusive marriage. Of course, because of the brainwashing, I feared for my soul and went back to my ex husband. A few more years of enduring this abuse, I had enough. I formed an escape plan(because by now my ex was even worse) and I finally left and stayed gone. That was over 2 years ago. About a year ago I received a letter from the church stating that I was being excommunicated for getting a divorce, not paying tithes and not attending church. Let me say that after I left my ex husband, I had no place to go. I lived in my car for about 3 months. Than I lived in a camper for another 3 months until I was able to rebuild my life for my children and myself. I had absolutely no way of attending a church, financially or physically. There were weeks I went without eating so that my kids could have a warm car to sleep in and food in their bellies. I had no extra money to pay tithes.
I got numerous phone calls from my former pastor wanting to talk about why I'm not attending church and when I'm coming back and what sins I had committed. It was when I received this letter of my excommunication that I realized that maybe, just maybe some of the accusations about the people of this church and the fact that is a cult, are true. I remember when that trancenet article came out. I was 16 years old. I remember being told not to read it and not to believe it. Well of course a 16 year old being told not to do something is obviously going to do it. Of course I didn't believe it because they told me not to. I was also young and not understanding what I was reading also. Now that I am older and I have read over the trancenet article and this blog here, I understand better. I know that the things that were done horribly to these people, molestation, rape, abuse in the school, etc, were kept under wraps and they were told not to report anything outside of the church. I was one of them. I remember I was about 7 years old and my two much older cousins(in their teens) took me to a "tree house" and started touching me and making me touch them. It was reported to the church by my mother and nothing was done about it. I remember going to summer camp every year and being treated like crap and make to stay outside in the summer heat all day having to wear pantyhose and long skirts. I remember seeing people going to the hospital because of the heat in the tabernacle that wasn't air conditioned with literally 1000's of people crammed in there. I remember the control center with all the bathrooms and beds in the lower part of the building. Some of you current members will say I am lying or that the other ex members are lying but we know what we saw and we know what happened to us. YOU don't believe because YOU are still being brainwashed by these people.
At this point in my life I do not have any faith in any god any more. I believe there is a god but who knows what is right? After all the things I witnessed at this church I can't believe that any god would allow so many bad things to happen to such a small group of people(compared to other religions). Why would any god want you to keep your religion a secret? I am not saying I worship the devil...I simply do not know.
I find myself even now after all that has happened still feeling bad about some of the things that I know happened and that I have acknowledged because I was told to keep it to myself and I was told this by the leaders, bishops and pastors of this church. I snap back to reality but I don't think that the negative things I learned from this church that was drilled to me every church service, 5-6 times a week, will ever leave me. And that's sad. Even though I know the truth I still have a little bit of fear. I shouldn't have to live in fear because of things I was taught when I was little. I still find myself getting all worried when I actually run into a current church member out in public because I am wearing pants or makeup or my hair is colored...and don't you know the last time I saw a current church member was a few weeks ago. They live in fear so much that the first words out of their mouth to me were "I haven't been to church in a while and I know they are wondering where I'm at but I just can't make it all the time." These people live, eat and breath SCHOJ.
With all that being said, there are good people that go to this church. I have met them. I miss them. If you are questioning whether or not to go to this church than just go. Find out for yourself. I know that I am going to be bashed for my statement here but know this there weren't many Mel's in this church and I'm a white girl...so you all will definitely know who I am.
Mel this is ur mother I am appalled at much of what u said I'm asking u to take this down because u know the truth n much wat I read was lies
she is telling the truth my book will be done soon the truth will set you free. all story about the hoj.it will embarress the house of Jacob I promise you.well I am sick of this crap is time the truth will set you free.to let the whole world know the truth about that church. Anen.... to love the truth al to the whole worldthe truth outis gOing to be our.
I agree with the September 16, 2013 comment to the "HOJ Members..." Thank you to whomever wrote it. Hopefully those who have questions will visit one of the churches and form their own opinion. PEACE
I truly feel sympathetic for the one's that have shared the incidents that have happened to them,I say this in a kind manner because you had to carry it so long and you really didn't have anyone to turn. If a religious organization is truly of God than the goal should be to help people spiritual,it shouldn't be based upon suppressing secrets and controlling a person's life. It shouldn't be based upon how much tithes you pay,(do God get any of the tithes?) To Mel and all the other's that were brave enough to free yourself of the burden and maybe pain that you have carried for years,I pray that you are doing better. After reading some of the post I have one question,what does wearing pants,or make-up have to do with anyone's love for God? Can anyone truly say that the Lord loves a group of women more because they wear dresses all the time verses a group that wears pants,or because they are a member of a certain religious organization?
Would love to read your book. I've read a post from Madeline Coffman...I really want to read her Communal living on the farm. I'm an ex member and when she talked about the control center I felt like there were things I have blocked out, like my mind refuses to remember. I do remember my grandmothers husband touching me and kissing me every chance he got. Him sticking his tongue all in my mouth. I hated to visit them.
I as well would like to read your book,(ex-member also)I have heard different stories of incidents that have happened. So sad,I do agree with the one post about people that had to deal with the horrible things that happened to them and not having anyone to turn to.
what are the rings on their fingers and what does the pentagram mean as the church steeple?
To Mel. My heart went out to you when said that because of your experience with this church you having doubts about God and the truth of him. I believe in the power of prayer and I pray that for every negative thing that has happened in your life, you will experience a positive turn around. I use to be a member as well and I believe everything you say. God is real and he is not the god of secrets, abuse and lies. I pray Gods lover over takes you in such a way that it wholly and fully restores everything in your life that has been broken or stolen from you. I pray that he send people into your life that are true and filled with his grace to comfort and up lift you in every way. But most of all, I pray that your hope and faith be restored so you can live the life God has always wanted for you. God is good and God is true. I know because after all I went through, he not only opened my eyes but has allowed me to grow and prosper in ways the church always said I wouldn't. And Im thankful. Gods word says when you know the truth, you are set free. I pray the truth of who God is be revealed to you and that you will have no more doubts.
This is such a lie u know damn well u worship father which u are taught hes god he is worship dont even try I was a member I know thats why they dont believe in the virgin mary ask them that and they really like the scripture st luke 1:33 whom they teach them that it refers to their church really oh they can make every scripture relate to their cult
It means he makes them believe he is god himself thats why youll never see pic of Jesus Christ anywhere in their cult nor homes but u will find pictures of the four fathers
Yes, because you have all of the secret mysteries in your bogus, crap religion. BAHAHAHAHA! smh Stupid people. You deserve everything you get. You are blind because you want to be blind.
The HOJ is based on Voodou. The founder came from Belzoni, MS, heart of Voodou land. He used the Bible as a cover for his secret Voodou religion. The leaders and bishops always had concubines and children to multiple women. This church mocks the Cross and the resurrection and everything that true Christianity stands for. At night certain ones convene in the woods on the farm and drink chicken blood and do Voodou ceremonies. The higher ranking ones are evil. The white people have no idea what is really going on. They are token members only.
What you said is so true! The men they call father were all pimps. POI was a Smackhead! He had several women like B.J. Hargrove. (Hmmm? I wonder how she got her nickname.) JIS (Jesus, Israel's Savior) was married but had many adulterous relationships. A Mother Johnson on the Eastern Shore of Maryland had 8 of his illegitimate children. Many bishops also whored around and had many bastards. There are probably half brother and sisters who married one another not even realizing they were related. These people don't do the works of Christ. They don't feed the hungry or preach the truth. The rape, pillage, and steal from widows and orphans. The sad thing is that many young people were broken by this group pointing their fingers at them and condemning them for their "sins" -- when those young people were more righteous than the people sitting on the boards and judging them. J.O.G. does claim to be Jesus Christ reincarnated. He has stood in the Tabernacle and proclaimed, "They are still crucifying me!"
The thing that gets me is how they justify paying tithes and the whole idea of paying your hard earned money to this organization. Once you become a minister if you don't pay tithes you are taken down, if you don't pay church dues you can't be used, so are we paying to hold rank? All the money that this organization collects and you pay table dollar for the meeting which is for the purchase of all the food and they turn around and sell the refreshments that you have already paid for. That doesn't make any sense. Offering is taken up after every service during the meeting where does that money go? You pay dues to sing in the national choir and you pay for your food during choir practice ( wow) all money that people have given for the upkeep of this organization why do you need permission to come to the farm?
Do we really know if he came from that area? Belzoni, was not the name during the time he was born it was called greasy row. It later became belzoni after he supposedly left. For some one who slept in the woods and ate grass ( which is interesting to me) he got married before he left so did she sleep in the woods also and eat grass? Does anyone remember the name of the wife/ and what really happened to her?
They say rings are for healing the sick. The pentagram suppose to represent Christ and 12 tribes of Israel.
Ask about the small book written by the founder in 1915. It is hidden but will answer most of your questions. It is entitled Universal church of God. I bet most people you ask about it doesn't know it exists. There is a few secretly tuck away. It will blow your mind. I know because I use to be a minister there and still got a lot of family brainwashed. I go to a great church now that worships Jesus Christ.
Should have visited other churches. Everyone needs spiritual guidance
Some feel they are doomed because they been brainwashed that SCOHJ is the only right church
That is not the truth. Research and visit other churches.
I think some of the people in the organization are wonderful, but there are some who let their rank go to their heads. They don't know how to talk to or treat the members that's why a lot of the young people are leaving. They don't understand what their outward appearance has to do with their love for God. There is to much favoritism. I know some one will say that's not true but it is true. If you are a yes man that goes along with the program and don't make waves then you move up in rank , but if you have a mind of your own you are labeled as spiritually weak.
You're a very critical person for someone who left the greatest gift God has given man. Keep your unclean, unhealthy thoughts to yourself because some of us have chosen to walk in the light and serve the Lord, also, they do not do a full days pay? A days labor? 10% tithing is required. A little bit of nothing. And rally is for the churches upkeep. Also, don't go against a good religion because they decided on their own holidays. The world decided to make 'Christmas' on a random day in December, which Jesus wasn't even born in that season! Give me a break. Learn your facts before you ATTEMPT to drag a holy church into the mud. Notice, attempt, because it will never happen. St Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the HOUSE OF JACOB forever and of HIS kingdom their shall be NO end.' You fight against God, you won't win. You'll be in my prayers of those who refuse to accept the true vine. And I feel sorry for you that you actually found it in yourself to have to make this comment, against a religious body, especially the HOUSE of Jacob. God bless.
A great decision actually. It is the best place to be. The only real guidance. Actually it is the ONLY church fully based on the bible. Therefore, yes it is the greatest because god is always first. The hoj does no such thing as brainwash. It guides leads and directs in a spiritual way, with a spiritual leader. Our religion actually has pastors overseers bishops etc who care so much about the people, they are in their spot for the saving of God's people and not for the money like every other 'minister' in this world. God bless the house of Jacob, because of his kingdom there shll be NO end.
You obviously left because you couldn't comprehend the spiritual way of god. No man on this earth has the power that the leader of the hoj has. It's ashame you couldn't stick it out long enough to see that. But when the going gets rough the weak run, only the strong will survive. You put yourself in a bad category there.
I don't think POI wrote the book universal Church of God I believe he took or copied from another church that was much larger than the hoj. If you do the research during the time he was born in Mississippi you will see the church that was growing and if not all of the hoj beliefs were copied from that organization that started long before the hoj,
The leader of the hoj is a man nothing more,he has no power. You speak as if he is God, and that's a sin right there. The hoj is a copy of another church that started long before the hoj was ever thought of its nothing original about the hoj, and all that organization cares about is tithes,stop paying them and you will see just how much they care. What would you do if there were no titles? Would you still be a member? The title minister is a joke you still have to answer to God on judgement day. Those titles mean nothing,(only in the hoj) get real and do some research ask questions and see if you get some straight answers. Ask about all the children that were born out of wedlock in the beginning of this organization,ask about the abuse of children at besa, ask questions like why is it that you have to have permission to visit land that you and your family members have paid for,ask questions like why do you pay table dollar for food that is sold back to you and your children( refreshments) you take vacation time off from your job to work for free for three days. What a joke
All of these comments ( no doubt are from members and some of the ministers) are shocking you say that the hoj is the place, it is the only true church but yet some of the comments are so mean spirited. What makes you different than any human?
Nothing makes them different,they are only recognized in and by the hoj.some of them are in the closet drinkers,drug users,liars,thieves,gamblers etc.they run to the building every service hour sing and shout act holy in front of the pastor and the members go home and do what they want.and I ain't mad at you
SMH, amazing all of these comments about a religious organization that's no different than any other organization. It is what it is. If people enjoy being brain washed so be it
What is the book about? The one that poi wrote , if God had anything to do with it why would it be a secret from the members? See that's what I am talking about if the hoj is suppose to be the greatest church on earth than why all the secrets?
George Washington ( aka Father poi) uncle was a minister and his uncle preformed the wedding. I believe this was his mother brother, so he did have family in Mississippi, makes you wonder if any of his story was true who was there to verify the events of his life? If he was able to ride in fine cars later in life did he ever go back to check on his sister and brothers? That does not seem very godly. Anyway I don't believe any of the stuff I was taught in the hoj.
It's called total mind control , you dress ,think and act according to the hojs guide lines. Scary
You are a very mean spirited person, if your organization is the greatest gift that God has given I can't tell by the post you posted.
He has the same power that you have, the only difference is you have not realized your power yet. Think outside the box or are you allowed to do that?
I have a question, why do your senior citizens have to continue to pay money to this organization once they are on a fixed income? Isn't that selfish of your great man of God to continue to ask them for money? Where is the love or concerns for their well being? And what happened to all the money that was given for Jacobs dwelling?
The ones that are in charge have the money.
Carolyn Grimes has the money.
Jog, son has never worked a job a day in his life other than on the farm but yet they drive 2015 automobiles, they have homes built, (carolyn grimes to) these people live off the hoj members money and they act like they are better than everyone else.
they had been in business for over a hundred years what have they done with all their money?
The people that work on the farm in the office is getting all the money. They probably own shares in the hoj and the members don't know. Just like Sharon H, reads all the letters that comes to headquarters that are addressed to JOG, some times he gets wind of your situation and some times he does. Sharon decides which letters get to him.. Carolyn decides where the money is spent and how its spent. She is so arrogant, do she have a degree for the position that she has held forever? And lets not forget MTR. B Collins, she has held that position forever. Even the Pope knew it was time to step down. Ijs
So is it true that Jacob Collins wife left him? Why is it that everyone else business is discussed but not theirs? It's kept undercover, certain people don't meet the board . very interesting
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